View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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  • Yes

    126 91.97%
  • No

    11 8.03%
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Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

  1. #151
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Yup. Whats disturbing is that the people who defend this group keep saying its not racist yet if you substitute blacks or Jews with what this group labels as Muslim it would be completely unacceptable by anyone yet because its Muslims they are targeting then in their minds it makes it OK. And the only reason their leader quit was because he got exposed by the German media- if it wasnt for that he would still be leading this group.
    That you believe a leader of a movement reflects on the majority of the people who take part in that movement no matter the actual values that the movement is promoting is proof that you do not follow common sense and basic human logic.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  2. #152
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Tell that to the leftist who think people wanting to protect and defend their culture, values, heritage, nation and race is a bad thing or evil
    ..


    If those people belong to a group like the KKK they are a very bad thing and evil.

    The USA knows how to deal with groups like that.

  3. #153
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Why can't you separate the leader from the message of the group? Have you read their platform? Do you know many people attended their rallies? You know none of these questions. And you want to deny Germans the right to free speech and demonstration by branding them racist.

    Immigration to Europe must stop before it dissolves the continent.


    Do you have any idea where the human race first got started?

    Here's a hint - it was south of the Mediterranean Sea.

  4. #154
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Atmosphere is the chanting, the signs, the opinions of the majority of the demonstrators.
    The general atmosphere in an EDL demonstration is a bigoted one.
    Is that the same in a PEGIDA demonstration? Doesn't seem so.





    Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection.
    It's also your injection that they claimed it was racist, Angela Merkel said "Xenophobic" which is a different term.
    The word 'racism' gets thrown around too much and it's a shame. It is my opinion that they are wrong. Merkel can't be wrong? She has admitted to being wrong on many occasions so we've established the fact that she can be wrong. As to the counter protesters, what makes them right? Their numbers? Because they simply do not.

    So if you wish to establish the claim that they are racist you would need to show more than some comments made by officials or a counter protest or anything like that. In order to establish the claim that the movement itself is a racist movement you'll need to point at its racist elements. I'm not going to change my mind regarding to the movement itself when I've seen nothing to indicate that it has a racist nature.


    A lot of the xenophobia on this planet has its genesis in racism and bigotry.

  5. #155
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What way out?
    1) I answered that two posts ago. (They are wrong) 2) It's not the question in the poll.



    Again with the M/E forum, that took long enough didn't it? Well no, xenophobia and racism are still not the same thing. One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist.



    So you're now saying that one can be a xenophobe without being a racist, which means that the two terms are not similar.
    Consistency, is it too much to ask for?



    Because they're wrong.
    Why did a million people think the world is flat?
    Appealing to numbers is a very wrong approach, logically.


    Because it looks flat?

    That sounds like a pretty good reason to me, even though it's 100% wrong.

  6. #156
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    If you've read their manifesto, feel free to post the specific bits you are concerned about.
    "1 duty to integration....
    2 zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants....
    3 protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture....
    4 Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges....
    5 States that Pegida oppose.... political correctness...."

    Translated:
    1. immigrants must assimilate to our standards or else
    2. Immigrants should be held to a higher standard of behavior than other citizens and will be punished with deportation even for minor crimes
    3. Mainstream/traditional culture should be considered superior by the law
    4. Unlike all other people, immigrants can't have any institutions to address conflicts or establish policies
    5. Opposes using proper and/or polite terms to refer to groups of people
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 03-01-15 at 04:42 PM.

  7. #157
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.



    How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country.
    We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.


    How are you going to stop the Muslim families in France from having children? Lots of children?

    Fill us in. This should be interesting.

  8. #158
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    bonjour monsieur

    dont you think it is too late to complain about this ?.
    for instance why do you think there are millions of algerians in france
    ?


    I believe that quite a few French people went to Algeria before many Algerians came to France. The road that comes in also goes out.

    The same thing is true of other countries in Europe.

  9. #159
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    I voted yes in the poll, but I did so with some difficulty. There are undoubtedly racist elements to this group -which necessitated my 'yes vote - but it doesn't mean that many of their concerns are not genuine. I don't think it is particularly racist, for example, to expect immigrants to conform to the society that they join. And I think that in far too many instances, that doesn't happen. The number of European 'muslims' flocking to ISIS is proof that there really is no integration of these people into the general population.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    But that's just it isn't it?

    From a legal perspective, EVERYTHING could technically fall under "Bigoted Against" if at all opposed. Certainly considering half the world used to be openly Communist or Nationalist, to say that Communists or Nationalists are "Evil misguided people" is to be bigoted against a far larger group of people than the global LBGT community. The idea that there exist "Good discrimination and bad discrimination" is inherently contradictory in a legal sense.

    Legally speaking, an ideological movement in and of itself can't truly be discriminated against without the discriminator committing equally heinous discrimination.
    One can make accurate generalizations about people who voluntarilly align themselves with an ideology or point of view, but a similar generalization about a large group united only by nationality, religion or ethnicity is not going to be accurate.

    Ie. "American conservatives want to lower taxes" is acccurate. "Older white men in American want to lower taxes" is not.

    There are no laws in the USA prohibiting discriminating against someone due to their ideology in most contexts. (exception: hiring for lower level government jobs)

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