View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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    126 91.97%
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Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

  1. #101
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.



    How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country. We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.
    bonjour monsieur

    dont you think it is too late to complain about this ?. for instance why do you think there are millions of algerians in france ?
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  2. #102
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    allowing muslim immigrants in European countries to open sharia courts doesn't make the West look more tolerant and respectful to the democratic values ,freedom of religion ,human rights etc.but it more likely creates a discrimination against different groups of people from different backgrounds.letting people be judged based on sharia laws or other laws isnt democracy
    So you are against arbitration as well? How about Jewish courts which have been legal for centuries? How about Christian courts? yea there are a few of those around,.. you know when deeply religious people go to their priest for advice and he lays down the law... like denying divorce.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    If it is a racist movement, so what?


    In a legal technicality sense, racist movements of all colors should be protected under the law the same way Gay or LGBT movements are. The hypocrisy here is astounding.


    If Communists want to rally, so what?

    If Nazis want to rally, so what?

    If Black Nationalists want to rally, so what?

    If Gays want to rally, so what?


    They should all be afforded the same rights. The LGBT movements around the world are just as extreme in their demands as other movements if not more so. It's wrong and I believe that in the future all manner of groups will have equal rights, something movements such as the LGBT and others will find galling in the end.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are against arbitration as well? How about Jewish courts which have been legal for centuries? How about Christian courts? yea there are a few of those around,.. you know when deeply religious people go to their priest for advice and he lays down the law... like denying divorce.
    yes I know but I believe in law rules that are regulated according to the social circumstances
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  5. #105
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    ....Our nations belong to us and are home for one culture, our own, and we have the right and obligation to keep out groups and people who would subvert and destroy our culture, values, and way of life.
    That is the bigot's creed summarized succinctly. Despite the USA's ugly history, that belief is un-American in spirit and is even contrary to the beliefs of our nation's founding fathers, even though many of them were slave owning, sexist hypocrites.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    the fact it eventually became a racist organisation does not blur that its inception was from a legitimate concern....
    You can say the same about every extremist or bigoted organization or movement. The concern might be legitimate, but their proposed solution to the concern is based on bigotry.

  7. #107
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It couldn't possibly be because they associate with far right groups and engage in violence. There must be a conspiracy.
    Did my use of past tense escape you? The EDL did not start out as a racist organisation, it had sikh, jewish, black and other members. If it helps, I will repeat myself - combat 18 and similar other groups were attracted in and there were street fights and confrontations.
    If your comment was aimed at PEGIDA, there have been no records of mass violence. There may be fringe elements and fringe violence but PEGIDA rallies in Germany have mostly if not all been peaceful. There were scuffles at today's march in Newcastle but there were British National Front and other fringe groups also present - as well as anti groups labeling PEGIDA as racist / scum / islamophobics etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    -- Sorry... What? Look. My question isn't about whether you believe their concerns are legitimate or not. As a matter of fact, I couldn't care less whether you support or don't support them. My question regards whether they are a racist organization pretending to be something else. As it stands, the leaders of PEGIDA have shown themselves to lean towards being racists. That alone should raise some serious flags about whether the organization is or isn't racist. Do you disagree?
    I disagree for grounds already stated. PEGIDA is largely a movement which contains a variety of opinions and feelings -

    A government minister has now, controversially, met Pegida supporters to discuss their concerns. But those supporters, not to mention the leadership, have wildly divergent opinions.
    Some believe there's no place for "foreigners" in Germany. Some are right-wing extremists. Others just want a public debate about immigration.
    And, without strong and consistent leadership, it is that lack of cohesion that, critics predict, will prove fatal for this movement. Link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    -- Then there are the people who support both PEGIDA and Golden Dawn:

    I didn't say they were racist --
    Don't be coy - why else would you specifically include pictures from Golden Dawn and other such parties and then claim these are the people who support PEGIDA and Golden Dawn as if they are the only supporters?

    It's like showing some KKK members who support some random grid iron team and being cute about saying all that team's support are KKK members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    You can say the same about every extremist or bigoted organization or movement. The concern might be legitimate, but their proposed solution to the concern is based on bigotry.
    Again, timeline is important - are you claiming the proposed solution or request at the inception of the EDL or once the extremists and British nazi movement had infiltrated?

  8. #108
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    ....Pegida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Affirms the right of asylum for war refugees and politically persecuted people.
    Advocates to include in the German constitution a right and duty to integration.
    Advocates for decentralized housing of refugees.
    Suggests creation of a central refugee agency for a fair allocation of immigrants among countries of the European Union.
    Demands a decrease in the number of asylum seekers per social worker from currently 200:1.
    Suggests to model German immigration policies after those of the Netherlands and Switzerland and demands an increased budget for the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to speed up processing of applications.
    Demands an increase in funding for the police.
    Demands implementation of all asylum laws including expulsion.
    Mentions zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants.
    States that Pegida oppose a misogynic and violent political ideology, but does not oppose assimilated and politically moderate Muslims.[31]
    Supports immigration as in Switzerland, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
    Pegida demonstration on 12 January 2015
    States that Pegida support sexual self-determination (opposing "early sexualization of children"[32]).
    Argues for the protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture.
    Supports the introduction of referenda as in Switzerland.
    Opposes weapon export to radical and non-permitted groups, such as the PKK.
    Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges.
    States that Pegida oppose gender mainstreaming, and political correctness.
    Indicates that Pegida oppose any radicalism, whether religious or politically motivated.
    Says that Pegida oppose hate speech, regardless of religion.
    That manifesto is a sanitized soft sell for bigotry. It is based on the assumption that the majority is threatened by outsiders and that those outsiders do not have a right to influence the politics and culture of the place where they live.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    ...One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist..
    So what? Xenophobia, homophobia, nationalism and racism are all forms of bigotry driven by by bogus or exagerated fear of the "others." They are all equally inaccurate, extreme and dangerous.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    So what? Xenophobia, homophobia, nationalism
    So nothing, I was debating mere definitions not what's better than what.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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