View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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  • Yes

    126 91.97%
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Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

  1. #91
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I didn't say they were racist. I asked you why you believe so many people think they are. Don't let the strawman hit you on the way out.
    What way out?
    1) I answered that two posts ago. (They are wrong) 2) It's not the question in the poll.

    Semantics. If you dislike people from Sub-saharan countries because they're black, then you're both a xenophobe and a racist. If you dislike the Chinese because they're Asians, it's the same exact thing. Your acrobatics are starting to amuse me though. Do they work in the M/E forum?
    Again with the M/E forum, that took long enough didn't it? Well no, xenophobia and racism are still not the same thing. One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist.

    Yes, and that would make him a xenophobe. If he is against Mexicans because they have NA roots, he's being both racist and a xenophobe.
    So you're now saying that one can be a xenophobe without being a racist, which means that the two terms are not similar.
    Consistency, is it too much to ask for?

    Ah, so nobody is conspiring to make PEGIDA look racist? Interesting. Why do so many people think they are racist then?
    Because they're wrong. Why did a million people think the world is flat? Appealing to numbers is a very wrong approach, logically.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What way out?
    1) I answered that two posts ago. (They are wrong) 2) It's not the question in the poll.
    So they are wrong based on what? That they don't get PEGIDA like you do?

    Again with the M/E forum, that took long enough didn't it? Well no, xenophobia and racism are still not the same thing. One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist.
    And in the context we're discussing they are the same thing. Unless of course you believe PEGIDA is against all sorts of immigration and not just Muslim immigration.

    So you're now saying that one can be a xenophobe without being a racist, which means that the two terms are not similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists.
    Reading, your gotcha moment fails when you don't read.

    Because they're wrong. Why did a million people think the world is flat? Appealing to numbers is a very wrong approach, logically.
    This is hardly comparable to the world being flat. It's two sides looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant and subjected. I asked you why one group came to one conclusion and the other came to another. I can wait for your answer.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So they are wrong based on what? That they don't get PEGIDA like you do?
    Based on the simple fact that it is not proven.
    70,000 people claim tomorrow that Hatuey is a racist. Are they right? Nope. Based on what? Based on the fact that there is no proof that he is. Period.

    And in the context we're discussing they are the same thing. Unless of course you believe PEGIDA is against all sorts of immigration and not just Muslim immigration.
    I'd have to believe they're xenophobic first so to claim that they are xenophobic against everyone and not just Muslims. Besides, are Muslims a race now?

    Reading, your gotcha moment fails when you don't read.
    And it isn't an umbrella term for racism. Racism and Xenophobia are two different terms that operate on the same level. One isn't including the other.
    You cannot deduce from the fact that someone is a xenophobic that he is also a racist. You also can't deduce from the fact that someone is racist that he is a xenophobe. You've claimed so yourself only a moment ago. So it doesn't include it.

    This is hardly comparable to the world being flat. It's two sides looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant and subjected. I asked you why one group came to one conclusion and the other came to another. I can wait for your answer.
    Why are they wrong? It varies with each person. Some due to the misinterpretation of the movement's nature and some due to political bias and other reasons. I'm really not interested in debating why people are wrong - that they're wrong is more than enough for me. So while that was the fourth time I've been answering these irrelevant questions of yours it will also be the last.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 02-28-15 at 10:48 AM. Reason: NOYFB
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Based on the simple fact that it is not proven.
    70,000 people claim tomorrow that Hatuey is a racist. Are they right? Nope. Based on what? Based on the fact that there is no proof that he is. Period.
    You're still ignoring the actual question and focusing on the actual number. What I asked you is how and why people reached this conclusion. That you continually ignore that the issue isn't the number but the reasons behind them reaching that conclusion says volumes.

    I'd have to believe they're xenophobic first so to claim that they are xenophobic against everyone and not just Muslims. Besides, are Muslims a race now?

    And it isn't an umbrella term for racism.
    Now you're being purposely obtuse. What kind of immigration are they in opposition to? Where do these people come from? The racial component and the xenophobic are one and the same given the situation. To believe otherwise is wilfully blissful ignorance.

    Why are they wrong? It varies with each person. Some due to the misinterpretation of the movement's nature and some due to political bias and other reasons. I'm really not interested in debating why people are wrong - that they're wrong is more than enough for me. So while that was the fourth time I've been answering these irrelevant questions of yours it will also be the last.
    Misinterpretation? How do you misinterpret this?



    Lmao, the bolded just made it even funnier. You can't say why people are wrong in assuming that PEGIDA is racist and xenophobic but you believe they are because... you say so? Your acrobatics, they're amazing. There is no bias in seeing the founders, the associations with Golden Dawn and considering them to be racist and xenophobic. If you can show why it's wrong, you're welcome to show how. I can wait.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It's a movement so naturally I'm not sympathizing with the leader but with the people who take to the streets, but I'm glad to see you haven't wasted an opportunity to make a hateful remark regarding my nationality for the thousandth time, quite fittingly backwards of you.
    Germany had a very similar movement back in the 1930's with a similarly moustachioed man so based on your logic you had no sympathy with that leader but with the people in the streets back then... I guess it makes sense now.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're still ignoring the actual question and focusing on the actual number. What I asked you is how and why people reached this conclusion. That you continually ignore that the issue isn't the number but the reasons behind them reaching that conclusion says volumes.
    I actually answered that mind you.

    Now you're being purposely obtuse. What kind of immigration are they in opposition to? Where do these people come from? The racial component and the xenophobic are one and the same given the situation. To believe otherwise is wilfully blissful ignorance.
    No they are not one and the same, I see no reason to believe that they are one and the same, it's quite silly to assume that anyone who has a problem with immigrants also hates them for their color.

    Misinterpretation? How do you misinterpret this?
    A racist person?
    Already stated in my first post in this topic that he is obviously racist, he is no longer the leader of the movement however as far as I know and as I pointed out earlier claiming that the entire movement is racist cannot be done solely on the basis that the leader is a racist asshole.

    I judge the movement by the people who are making the majority of it, if I will be convinced that the majority of them are racist or that the nature of the movement is a racist one I will admit that it is a racist movement like the EDL is. Until then I'm not going to do so. I will note that such movements naturally attract racists to them and that eventually they will be all that is left from it but right now I cannot see a group of people who are merely protesting against a radical ideology as racists, I find that to be very wrong.

    Lmao, the bolded just made it even funnier. You can't say why people are wrong in assuming that PEGIDA is racist and xenophobic but you believe they are because... you say so?
    Another injection. No I do not believe they are wrong because I say so, I never suggested that, I believe they are wrong due to the lack of evidence. Perhaps you are used to drawing conclusions based over nothing, I like to have a logical basis for every opinion that I hold and I see none provided for the opinion that they are racists.
    And I'll note that you haven't even once made any attempt to create such logical basis, so if you would for once that would be quite refreshing eh?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Germany had a very similar movement back in the 1930's with a similarly moustachioed man so based on your logic you had no sympathy with that leader but with the people in the streets back then... I guess it makes sense now.
    Well naturally since the idiot was trying to imitate that same mustached man. Holy **** that's stupid. And no the majority of PEGIDA protesters aren't bigoted as far as I can tell so your point? It's nonexistent per usual.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    allowing muslim immigrants in European countries to open sharia courts doesn't make the West look more tolerant and respectful to the democratic values ,freedom of religion ,human rights etc.but it more likely creates a discrimination against different groups of people from different backgrounds.letting people be judged based on sharia laws or other laws isnt democracy
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    THIS is the problem with people like you.. hiding behind "immigration" when you fully know that there is very little legal immigration to Europe from outside the EU, and what there is is mostly of highly professional peoples who come here for a job (depends on each country of course).
    So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What you, Front National, UKIP, Pegida, The Danish Peoples Party and all similar parties and organisations want is to get rid of the coloured people and non Christians and you use the immigration issue internally and externally in Europe as a platform to gain political power based on an irrational fear of people who act and look different. That is racism being hidden behind "immigration" issues.
    How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country. We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.
    Ahh a good question! Have you ever bothered to find that out?

    So which number should we start with? The 44ish million in all of Europe (excluding Turkey), or only the 19-20 million in the EU? When did they arrive in Europe.. the last 10 years or 30+ years ago? How many are actually natural born citizens? How many live in traditionally Muslim areas of Europe... going back hundreds of years?

    How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country. We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.
    Ethnic French? Wow.... that sounds borderline... never mind.

    First off what is ethnic French? White? No blacks or Asians? How about mixed breeds? Does Sarkozy count as ethnic French considering his family are Jews from Hungary? How about Hollande.. bet his family has big links to the Netherlands or there abouts.. since traditionally the name "Hollande" is linked to Holland (go look it up). Is he "ethnicity French" enough. How about De Gaulle? He was after all part Scottish, German, Irish and Flemish on his mother side.. was he enough ethnically French? Or Zidane or half the French national team.. in almost all sports!

    Secondly what is decreasing? Pure whites? Sure.. cause we dont have issues mating with a non white any more.. people have become civilized.

    And finally, no more Muslims in Europe. You know people have been saying that for centuries.. about Muslims and Jews.. and Protestants and Orthodox.. Still does not make it right. It also does not help that we have created a large part of the refugee problem, either directly or indirectly.
    PeteEU

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