View Poll Results: Well?

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  • I'm a liberal: conservatives are evil

    158 46.88%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals are evil

    3 0.89%
  • I'm a liberal: conservatives aren't evil

    23 6.82%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals aren't evil

    136 40.36%
  • Ban Morality Games

    17 5.04%
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Thread: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

  1. #81
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by akrunner88 View Post
    You are saying if you had a gay son, you would be just as outraged if he was randomly shot in the parking lot for his car than if he was shot because he was gay? You're definitely a minority then.
    If I had a gay son, which I might considering I have 3 sons, and he is killed, it won't be any more horrific that he's killed because he's gay than it would be for any reason. See, I think crimes are horrific on their own. I guess the "majority" thinks crimes aren't horrific on their own.

    I suppose a man whose son is shot because someone wants to steal his car can sit at his son's funeral and smile and say "Well, at least he was killed for his car and not because he's gay. That makes it much better. Let's go to the party now Linda!"

    WTF?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  2. #82
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Some Nazi soldiers were simply stuck between a rock and a hard place. They had no choice but to follow orders.

    That is typical of any militia. Many soldier may disagree with the objective
    however they can not simply disobey orders.

    I am sure there were some Nazi soldiers who were sickened by the atrocities they had to commit. Humans are truly, TRULY, not as black and white as you want to paint them as.


    This defense was famously thrown out at the Nuremberg trials.

  3. #83
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If I had a gay son, which I might considering I have 3 sons, and he is killed, it won't be any more horrific that he's killed because he's gay than it would be for any reason. See, I think crimes are horrific on their own. I guess the "majority" thinks crimes aren't horrific on their own
    If your son is killed simply because a robbery went wrong. That is horrible. A robbery that happened simply because you son happened to be in the wrong place.

    And this may be subjective, however, yeah I do think there is extra level of cruelty if you son was sought out and followed and then killed for something about him that he had no control over.

    There is extra hate there. Usually in a hate crime they want the victim to suffer. To feel the pain. Because they HATE them . It's terrible way to die and it's terrible thing to have to deal with as a family member of someone who was taken because of that kind of hate.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  4. #84
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Well we can put that in the never gonna happen box in the attic.
    That is a fine box.

  5. #85
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    This defense was famously thrown out at the Nuremberg trials.
    I'm sure it was. That doesn't mean that soldiers who claimed that where not actually in those cognitive positions.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  6. #86
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    hate crime laws are messages sent to those have have extreme beliefs that would otherwise harm entire communities if not abated. Not just unfortunate individuals that are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Someone who is out to harm only white people is a threat to large pool of potential victims. In this instance, if you are white, your not safe no matter where you are or who you are because this person is actively seeking you out to harm you. And the color of you skin is the reason.

    These distinctions are what create the need for these laws. They take into account the action and the terror inflicted on more than just their victim. Someone is killed because they are gay and you have a whole community that is up in flames. Worried if they will be next. The psychological and it's wide spread effect adds onto the crime.

    The point is to provide a very real message. Hate crimes are simply more dangerous. We know that. There is precedence for what happens when someone's hateful actions against immutable characteristics goes unchecked.
    You make my point for me.

    'messages', 'psychological', these are now the foundations on which the criminal statues are built? Not what you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt? Not physical evidence? Not forensic evidence?

    When are those that are easily intimidated going to get their protected class, and those that are gregarious or a tad overbearing, or perhaps just taller in stature, be charged with 'being intimidating' or 'having intimidating' thoughts?

    (Yeah OK, I'll admit up front that this is a bit of a stretch, but still, for the sake of argument . . . . )
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  7. #87
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    If you son is killed simply because a robbery went wrong. That is horrible. A robbery that happened simply because you son happened to be in the wrong place.

    And this may be subjective, however, yeah I do think there is extra level of cruelty if you son was sought out and followed and then killed for something about him that he had no control over.

    There is extra hate there. Usually in a hate crime they want the victim to suffer. To feel the pain. Because they HATE them . It terrible way to die and it's terrible thing to have to deal with as a family of someone who lost a loved one to that kind of hate.
    Unlike the guy who rapes and kills a young mother and 2 of children in cold blood because he doesn't hate them, right? Or the woman who shoots the old neighbor to get drug money, because she loves her, right? Or how about the guy who rapes and strangles the young girl he followed in the Target store who went there for wrapping paper for her boyfriend's birthday present - he just adored her, right?

    And the loves ones of those people, they should feel so much better because these were crimes of love.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #88
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If I had a gay son, which I might considering I have 3 sons, and he is killed, it won't be any more horrific that he's killed because he's gay than it would be for any reason. See, I think crimes are horrific on their own. I guess the "majority" thinks crimes aren't horrific on their own.

    I suppose a man whose son is shot because someone wants to steal his car can sit at his son's funeral and smile and say "Well, at least he was killed for his car and not because he's gay. That makes it much better. Let's go to the party now Linda!"






    WTF?


    Anyone can suppose a lot of things but that doesn't mean that any of them ever have or ever will happen.

  9. #89
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    If your son is killed simply because a robbery went wrong. That is horrible. A robbery that happened simply because you son happened to be in the wrong place.

    And this may be subjective, however, yeah I do think there is extra level of cruelty if you son was sought out and followed and then killed for something about him that he had no control over.

    There is extra hate there. Usually in a hate crime they want the victim to suffer. To feel the pain. Because they HATE them . It's terrible way to die and it's terrible thing to have to deal with as a family member of someone who was taken because of that kind of hate.
    Hating someone or not, isn't that a moral issue? Do you care that one person hates another, as long as they don't act on it?

    So aren't hate crimes an attempt to legislate morality? Isn't that something many have already admitted the legal system is ill-equipped to do, legislate morality?
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  10. #90
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anyone can suppose a lot of things but that doesn't mean that any of them ever have or ever will happen.
    Meaning you want one of my sons to be killed right after he announces he's gay so I can test my theory?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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