View Poll Results: Well?

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  • I'm a liberal: conservatives are evil

    158 46.88%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals are evil

    3 0.89%
  • I'm a liberal: conservatives aren't evil

    23 6.82%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals aren't evil

    136 40.36%
  • Ban Morality Games

    17 5.04%
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Thread: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

  1. #171
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    And if I, a male progressive (i.e. won't be using birth control anytime soon) think that birth control should be paid by the state, is that selfish and/or evil?
    No, I'm not saying that all progressives (or that all conservatives for that matter) are evil. The point was that selfishness and evil transcend political leans, and that it really boils down to thoughts, feelings, and motivation which manifest themselves in various ways.

    There are plenty of progressives and conservatives who have good, selfless motives behind their belief structure. Just as there are plenty who are "takers" by nature.

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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The actual liberal/progressive position is "Low income people need access to birth control that they can afford so they can plan their families and their lives more effectively, which will reduce their need for assistance in the future."
    I don't think there's one unifying liberal/progressive position outside of "birth control should be paid for by the state." Only God can see in to the hearts of men, as it were.

    Some people, I'm sure, do rationalize the way you've described. Others don't. Progressives run the gamut.

  3. #173
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    A surprise, very much so ... not even close to what I thought the outcome would be ..
    I choose Morality Games ... I did not care for the selections .
    "Normal liberalism, regular conservatism cannot be evil ... silly to even think this
    What is "evil" ,of course, is extremism ... particularly conservative extremism ..

  4. #174
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Which only goes to show the futility of moral relativism. If good and evil is subject to the whims of individual or even cultural tastes, then the distinction becomes meaningless.

    Was the Nazi extermination of Jews and other “undesirables” evil? I think most today universally recognize it as one of the greatest examples of pure evil in recent history, but by the [lack of any meaningful] standard that you seem to advocate, it couldn't be evil, because it was approved by the society in which it occurred, and allowed by the laws thereof.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    All morals are, by definition, relative. That doesn't mean that different societies cannot choose what morals to value and what morals to reject, in fact, that's really how morality works. Nobody can show that their individual moral views are factually accurate or true though, it's all opinion, even yours. In WWII, a lot of countries decided to fight against Hitler, more because of his expansionism than because of his views. In fact, one of the major reasons that the U.S. and Britain advocated giving Israel to the Jews is because they felt bad that they hadn't really paid much attention to the Holocaust early in the war. Two sides fought. One side won. The winners write the history. If Hitler had won and taken over any significant part of the world, there likely would be a very different story in the history books today.

    This kind of "objective morality" arguing is really a bunch of "I'm right, so there!" without having to actually demonstrate that your views are true.
    So, if Nazi Germany had won the war, would their treatment of the Jews and other “undesirables” have been fully justified?

    Was the Holocaust evil, or wasn't it? I think this is a simple, objective question, with a solid, one-word answer. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to answer it.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #175
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

    "I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

    "I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

    Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.
    You're confusing selfishness with greed.

    Selfishness is an unwillingness to share with others, what is rightfully yours.

    Greed is a desire take for yourself, or for some purpose that you support, that which rightfully belongs to others.

    Greed is inherently evil, but selfishness is not necessarily. A person certainly has much more right to determine what use is to be made of what is rightfully his own, than someone else does.

    It is ironic that liberals like to accuse conservatives of being greedy, when it is liberal positions that call for taking what is not theirs, to be used for their pet causes; which therefore makes liberals the ones who are actually guilty of greed.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #176
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    And if I, a male progressive (i.e. won't be using birth control anytime soon) think that birth control should be paid by the state, is that selfish and/or evil?
    What you are advocating is that wealth be taken from others, and used for a purpose that you favor, but which those others who are to be compelled to pay for it might not necessarily favor.

    That's not selfishness; that's greed—the desire to take what is not yours, to be used in a manner contrary to the wishes of the rightful owners from which it is to be taken.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #177
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    What you are advocating is that wealth be taken from others, and used for a purpose that you favor, but which those others who are to be compelled to pay for it might not necessarily favor.

    That's not selfishness; that's greed—the desire to take what is not yours, to be used in a manner contrary to the wishes of the rightful owners from which it is to be taken.
    Do you advocate for military spending?
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    I say that he [Trump] is the most honest guy to come down the pike in a very long while.

  8. #178
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    We agree then:

    1. Selfishness and evilness are two different things.
    2. Conservatism isn't evil, it's just selfish (albeit in an honorable manner).
    It really depends on one's definition of selfishness though. Is it selfish to look to your own interests, to provide for yourself and your family, and to not require your neighbor to take care of you?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #179
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    You're confusing selfishness with greed.

    Selfishness is an unwillingness to share with others, what is rightfully yours.

    Greed is a desire take for yourself, or for some purpose that you support, that which rightfully belongs to others.

    Greed is inherently evil, but selfishness is not necessarily. A person certainly has much more right to determine what use is to be made of what is rightfully his own, than someone else does.

    It is ironic that liberals like to accuse conservatives of being greedy, when it is liberal positions that call for taking what is not theirs, to be used for their pet causes; which therefore makes liberals the ones who are actually guilty of greed.
    Not to get all big-ego on you, because I'm sitting here making the argument that ego is at the heart of all evil, but I had the definition right.

    "SELFISH - (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure."


    What is rightfully yours is rightfully yours... it's not the government's to take. One reason I'm conservative. However, remember that as Christians, we would do well to remember this little verse:

    The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" 21Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property


    The meaning behind this being, to be perfectly good and not evil, one cannot have a drop of selfishness (or greed, as you put it) in their soul.

  10. #180
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    Re: Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

    "I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

    "I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

    Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.
    No, evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology. But conservatism, as defined in modern day America, is not selfish. Those who embrace it expect to do whatever they have to do that is honorable and ethical to provide for their own needs and be a benefit to society instead of a burden. And it promotes a society that expects and enables others to do the same. I think that concept FEELS selfish to the typical liberal.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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