View Poll Results: As a superviser/Manager what would you do?

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  • 1. Deny him the raise but allow him continued employment.

    3 0.87%
  • 2. Recognize he is a minimum performer,...etc/see post

    1 0.29%
  • 3. Recognize his contributions to the company and offer him higher wages and benefits.

    101 29.36%
  • 4. Recognize he is a victim of an unfair...etc/ see post

    239 69.48%
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Thread: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

  1. #21
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Interesting thread, and interesting answers to the question as well. However it seems predicated on feelings for the employee or a matter of what they "deserve", none of which is relevant to what the person makes. I know, I know, we're supposed to be compassionate and businesses are supposed to exist as a means for the employees to be happy. But that is simply not reality.

    I've owned my business now for just short of 8 years. I have hired and fired many people. I've even fired a few customers. One thing I can honestly say about owning a business is that unless you actually do, you have no idea what it takes to make it work. I don't say that to sound better than others, I mean that even after 2 years of research and planning to open my shop there are still things that happen that I never anticipated. And there are a lot of expenses as well. Too many to list, too many new things that come along, new regulations, changes in procedures, vendors, market, etc. I have made mistakes in most of these, and overpaying an employee has certainly been one of them.

    The fact is in any business there is a formula that determines what the employee pay will be, and any manager or owner who determines it based on feelings is either making a mistake or is in a field that is not competitive. The short story for my field and area is just over 30%. Conversely that equates to 325%. So a person making $10 an hour has to have a net production of $32.50 per hour. I don't even know what minimum wage is right now. Let's call it $7.45 an hour. In order for them to be worth what they are being paid they have to produce nearly $25 an hour NET to get that. It matters not if they have been producing that for 5 days or 5 years. The cost of employment is considerably more than what the hourly wage is as well. For each of my employees on top of their wages I have my half of FICA, uniforms, workers comp and unemployment insurance to consider. Above that there are many other static expenses, such as advertising, power, phones, heat, accounting, rent, internet, in my case subscriptions to technical information sites, taxes, compliance costs, you get the picture.

    So to ask a hypothetical question about what "you" would do in itself exposes a lack of understanding of business operation (no offense to the OP).

    I once worked with a guy who did oil changes in a dealership. He did some other little things, wiper blades, the occasional tire repair, but mostly oil changes. And he was GOOD. The best I had ever seen actually. He had a good attitude, he was efficient, and he was loyal. At one point he went to our manager and asked for a raise. One of the arguments he used was that he had 10 years of experience. I'll never forget what the manager said to him. He said "Billy, I like you. But you don't have 10 years of experience. There is no such thing as 10 years of experience doing what you do. What you have is 2 years of experience 5 times over. If you want to make what these guys make (meaning other techs like me) then do what they do."

    great post

    and eight years and going strong is great

    i have been in management for 20+ years....and i am still learning

    and still making the occasional errors that cost me and the business money
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  2. #22
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The OP does not indicate the profitability of the company. Therefore there is not enough info to answer.

    A long term employee has an inherent value for some tasks being acceptable in performance is just that, acceptable. There are job tasks for which performance is either acceptable or not, and nothing higher or lower in value than that simple measure.

    In my opinion salary should be somewhat related to the profitability of the company, not how cheap can employees be obtained.
    So a person doing a job as a skill level deserves greater pay for that job in a highly profitable company than the person do that same job at the same skill level in a lower profitability company?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #23
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    As a manager, a minimum wage position worker approaches you and asks for a raise. Worker has been in the company for three years. In the work force for 10+ years after high school. Worker has no college, no trade schooling. Worker has only held minimum wage entry level positions during his career. Has never been fired but also has never been graded by supervisor as more than adequate/average, has never been recommended for advancement to higher level/better pay and benefits position.

    As the manager, what would you do?

    1. Deny him the raise but allow him continued employment.
    2. Recognize that he is a minimum performer, a lazy, uneducated, unmotivated, low skill useless POS and send him to unemployment opening the position to new potential workers.
    3. Recognize his contributions to the company and offer him higher wages and benefits.
    4. Recognize that he is a victim of an unfair and unjust society whom the evil owners of companies has oppressed and then offer him CEO wages to perform entry level work at minimum required levels.
    according to the right wing politics nobody is equal and some people always have to stay minimum wage workers because they are not smarter ,more intelligent etc...now cant we help them meet their basic needs as a human being ? are they sentenced to wage slavery for a lifetime ?
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  4. #24
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Interesting thread, and interesting answers to the question as well. However it seems predicated on feelings for the employee or a matter of what they "deserve", none of which is relevant to what the person makes. I know, I know, we're supposed to be compassionate and businesses are supposed to exist as a means for the employees to be happy. But that is simply not reality.

    I've owned my business now for just short of 8 years. I have hired and fired many people. I've even fired a few customers. One thing I can honestly say about owning a business is that unless you actually do, you have no idea what it takes to make it work. I don't say that to sound better than others, I mean that even after 2 years of research and planning to open my shop there are still things that happen that I never anticipated. And there are a lot of expenses as well. Too many to list, too many new things that come along, new regulations, changes in procedures, vendors, market, etc. I have made mistakes in most of these, and overpaying an employee has certainly been one of them.

    The fact is in any business there is a formula that determines what the employee pay will be, and any manager or owner who determines it based on feelings is either making a mistake or is in a field that is not competitive. The short story for my field and area is just over 30%. Conversely that equates to 325%. So a person making $10 an hour has to have a net production of $32.50 per hour. I don't even know what minimum wage is right now. Let's call it $7.45 an hour. In order for them to be worth what they are being paid they have to produce nearly $25 an hour NET to get that. It matters not if they have been producing that for 5 days or 5 years. The cost of employment is considerably more than what the hourly wage is as well. For each of my employees on top of their wages I have my half of FICA, uniforms, workers comp and unemployment insurance to consider. Above that there are many other static expenses, such as advertising, power, phones, heat, accounting, rent, internet, in my case subscriptions to technical information sites, taxes, compliance costs, you get the picture.

    So to ask a hypothetical question about what "you" would do in itself exposes a lack of understanding of business operation (no offense to the OP).

    I once worked with a guy who did oil changes in a dealership. He did some other little things, wiper blades, the occasional tire repair, but mostly oil changes. And he was GOOD. The best I had ever seen actually. He had a good attitude, he was efficient, and he was loyal. At one point he went to our manager and asked for a raise. One of the arguments he used was that he had 10 years of experience. I'll never forget what the manager said to him. He said "Billy, I like you. But you don't have 10 years of experience. There is no such thing as 10 years of experience doing what you do. What you have is 2 years of experience 5 times over. If you want to make what these guys make (meaning other techs like me) then do what they do."
    None taken. And thanks for the real instead of "hypothetical" input. The whole idea behind the question was to change the perspective of the whole "minimum wage" debate.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  5. #25
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    according to the right wing politics nobody is equal and some people always have to stay minimum wage workers because they are not smarter ,more intelligent etc...now cant we help them meet their basic needs as a human being ? are they sentenced to wage slavery for a lifetime ?
    As there is only a limit amount of resources available, why should we "waste" greater and greater amounts to those who do not contribute more than they consume?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  6. #26
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    according to the right wing politics nobody is equal and some people always have to stay minimum wage workers because they are not smarter ,more intelligent etc...now cant we help them meet their basic needs as a human being ? are they sentenced to wage slavery for a lifetime ?

    you dont have to be "smart" to earn over minimum wage

    how smart do you think the guys are that clean sewage tanks?

    and they make a hell of a lot more than minimum wage

    how smart do you have to be to be a sanitation worker?

    there are hundreds if not thousands of jobs that people with average or lower intelligence can do, and still earn middle class wages
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #27
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    It doesn't inform about his work ethic/motivations?
    The only thing a trade school or college degree might indicate is that your company is merely a stepping stone until something better comes along.That the only reason that person is working for your company is because you were that person's last resort.

    They are not relevant indicators of his expected performance in the future and thus whether or not he should get a raise?
    They are not relevant indicators since those have nothing to do with how well the employee is currently doing his job.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #28
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    you dont have to be "smart" to earn over minimum wage

    how smart do you think the guys are that clean sewage tanks?

    and they make a hell of a lot more than minimum wage

    how smart do you have to be to be a sanitation worker?

    there are hundreds if not thousands of jobs that people with average or lower intelligence can do, and still earn middle class wages
    thats the argument of right-wingers..
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  9. #29
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    thats the argument of right-wingers..
    That's an obvious observation from a non American....
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #30
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    Re: Making a decision on a Minimum Wage Worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That's an obvious observation from a non American....
    thank you
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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