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Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

Should the US military be replaced with a citizen defensive body?


  • Total voters
    68
are you speaking of the national guard and armed forces reserves?
If you don't know which of those is the militia, you should probably learn a few things about this topic before posting further.
 
That canard again.

isolationism definition

The doctrine that a nation should stay out of the disputes and affairs of other nations. The United States practiced a policy of isolationism until World War I and did not pursue an active international policy until after World War II. ( See “ entangling alliances with none.”)

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

Hey, can you tell me what you base this claim on? It can't possibly be military intervention. Around 20 years before WWI we got involved in Cuba and fought a whole war over another nation's affairs. That's just off the top of my head. However, the US sent out military expeditions quite regularly to protect US interests abroad. We also deposed entire kingdoms (Hawaii) and fought off an entire rebellion in China (Boxer Rebellion). So I'm not sure what you're basing your claim off. The US has never engaged in the type of isolationism you're discussing.
 
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Hey, can you tell me what you base this claim on? It can't possibly be military intervention. Around 20 years before WWI we got involved in Cuba and fought a whole war over another nation's affairs. That's just off the top of my head. However, the US sent out military expeditions quite regularly to protect US interests abroad. We also deposed entire kingdoms (Hawaii) and fought off an entire rebellion in China (Boxer Rebellion). So I'm not sure what you're basing your claim off. The US has never engaged in the type of isolationism you're discussing.
People should feel the consequences of their vote. If you elect a warmonger, you should personally serve in his campaign. Now if you believe in a conflict and elect someone to execute it, then you should have no problem carrying out that mission yourself.

When the people get tired of missing their families, these wars will stop.
 
People should feel the consequences of their vote. If you elect a warmonger, you should personally serve in his campaign. Now if you believe in a conflict and elect someone to execute it, then you should have no problem carrying out that mission yourself.

When the people get tired of missing their families, these wars will stop.

Yeah... I see a few problems with that. For one, it would require the ballot to be... not so secret. The ramifications of not having a secret ballot are quite a few degrees more important than what you feel should happen to people who "elect" warmongers.
 
Yeah... I see a few problems with that. For one, it would require the ballot to be... not so secret. The ramifications of not having a secret ballot are quite a few degrees more important than what you feel should happen to people who "elect" warmongers.
"You" as a people, not "you" as an individual. A lot more people voted for Obama than actually carried out his war efforts. I think if the average joe had to go to Afghanistan that we would have been out of there a long time ago.

I think if the typical voter had to worry about being sent to Iraq, they would have a stronger opinion on the president's intentions to return there, also.
 
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If you don't know which of those is the militia, you should probably learn a few things about this topic before posting further.

ok Haymarket.. I know now not to ask you any simple questions about what you, yourself, are referring to..

in any event, it's ****ing ignorant to argue the training and martial acumen of full time professional servicemembers is rivaled by that of the militia... it's not... not by a long shot.
 
ok Haymarket.. I know now not to ask you any simple questions about what you, yourself, are referring to..
Knowing that the national guard is the militia is basic information you should posses before saying something truly ignorant like the militia have no training. A term in the militia begins with attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training.

in any event, it's ****ing ignorant to argue the training and martial acumen of full time professional servicemembers is rivaled by that of the militia... it's not... not by a long shot.
Since the militia has real jobs while not training, we're usually better than the full-timers.
 
Knowing that the national guard is the militia is basic information you should posses before saying something truly ignorant like the militia have no training. A term in the militia begins with attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training.
learn to read, I didn't say they had no training... I said they lack professional training... as in there is a deficiency of professional training compared to that of full time sevicemembers who live and breathe training each and every day of their career.

basic training is just that.. basic.... the bulk of the professional warriors training is not found in basic training, AIT, BCT, or even in MOS specific schools... the bulk comes in practical and repetitive application of basic and advanced techniques under the constant tutelage of experienced professional warfighters and support personnel...
like in any other field, school get you in the door, but lengthy and comprehensive OJT makes you a professional.


Since the militia has real jobs while not training, we're usually better than the full-timers.
ahhh.. now i see why you're hostile.. you think you're under attack and feel the need to feign superiority as a defense mechanism.... relax, you're not under attack.

how does holding down a "real job" while not training make you guys better?.. can you explain that notion to me?
 
I said they lack professional training... as in there is a deficiency of professional training compared to that of full time sevicemembers who live and breathe training each and every day of their career.
Full-timers do not train every single day. I know the media tells you soldiers wake up at zero-freedom-thirty, run 200 miles in 30 seconds, have a bowl of liberty and go kill terrorists all day, but that's not the real world. Having a full-time military job is 90% like having a regular civilian job with a uniform. Full timers get little to no more training than part-timers.

Yes, militia receive professional training. 6 months worth at the beginning, 2 weeks per year, and a weekend per month.

basic training is just that.. basic.... the bulk of the professional warriors training is not found in basic training, AIT, BCT, or even in MOS specific schools... the bulk comes in practical and repetitive application of basic and advanced techniques under the constant tutelage of experienced professional warfighters and support personnel...
like in any other field, school get you in the door, but lengthy and comprehensive OJT makes you a professional.
That is the single most asinine thing I've ever seen you post. You truly have no knowledge on the topic.

how does holding down a "real job" while not training make you guys better?.. can you explain that notion to me?
It's literally a greater number of actual hours performing the job, and to a higher standard. If you're a full-timer, you work Tuesday through Friday, 08:00-16:30, and unless you're a pencil pusher you'll spend about half that time actually doing your job. You'll spend the other half performing "other duties as required" like picking up garbage. Whereas if you have a civilian job, you work sun-up to sun-down 5,6,7 days per week, and all of that time is spent doing your actual job. You also have to perform to a higher standard because your employer has money on the line whereas the government fosters a culture of apathy.
 
That's all you're allowed to have under the 2nd Amendment. :lol:
Then CNN is only allowed to use one of these:

CranstonPress1-300x225.jpg

...time for liberals to take down their high-capacity military-style blogs.
 
Full-timers do not train every single day. I know the media tells you soldiers wake up at zero-freedom-thirty, run 200 miles in 30 seconds, have a bowl of liberty and go kill terrorists all day, but that's not the real world. Having a full-time military job is 90% like having a regular civilian job with a uniform. Full timers get little to no more training than part-timers.
:lol: it's funny that you actually believe your bull****... or it's sad that you have decided to troll.... not sure which it is, yet.

the notion that active duty members get no more training than part timers is absolutely, unequivocally false... either you have been severely misled, or you're lying.... there are no other options

Yes, militia receive professional training. 6 months worth at the beginning, 2 weeks per year, and a weekend per month.
yes, that's why you're called weekend warriors.



That is the single most asinine thing I've ever seen you post. You truly have no knowledge on the topic.
25 years as active duty Marine says i might know a thing or two about being a professional.

It's literally a greater number of actual hours performing the job, and to a higher standard. If you're a full-timer, you work Tuesday through Friday, 08:00-16:30, and unless you're a pencil pusher you'll spend about half that time actually doing your job. You'll spend the other half performing "other duties as required" like picking up garbage. Whereas if you have a civilian job, you work sun-up to sun-down 5,6,7 days per week, and all of that time is spent doing your actual job. You also have to perform to a higher standard because your employer has money on the line whereas the government fosters a culture of apathy.
2 weeks a year and 1 weekend a month...and you think you spend more time actually doing he job than full time servicemembers?.. is this a ****ing joke?...does simple math escape you?
you do the job to a higher standard?...delusional yammerings, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm glad you spend all that time at your "real job"...if that job as nothing to do with your job as a militia member, it's meaningless to your training or martial acumen.... you might be the very best and productive burger flipper on earth, but burger flippin skills don't translate over, unless you're a cook.

I'm not sure where you got the notion of working 8 hours a day for 4 days on active duty, but it's very ..very.. wrong...I've never heard of such a garrison schedule, unless additional liberty is awarded, or in the case of a federal holiday in.... or maybe it's an Army thing
you seem to be missing field training in your bloviating as well... though that doesn't surprise me... accuracy isn't exactly what you are shooting for here.
 
25 years as active duty Marine ...
Ooh that explains it all right there. See we're talking about milita, and Marines have no such equivalent. The Marine Corps is a whole different animal since they have the Navy to take care of them. The Army, which has the militia, is a complete organism, which means we have all our own pencil pushers. The only way to compare the Marine Corps with the Army is if we regard the entire Navy, not just the Navy's infantry. Person for person the Navy's infantry likely does receive more and better training than the Army as a whole because administrators who aren't expected to ever perform dismounted partoll don't need and therefore don't get all the trigger time. That doesn't mean the Army receives no training and are not professionals, as you claimed.

So you're using unlike items in addition to claiming that no one in the militia ever receives professional training. Your errors are compounded, but Marines don't train to think in the first place, and you say you were in 25 years, so it behooves me to forgive more of your errors.

2 weeks a year and 1 weekend a month...and you think you spend more time actually doing he job than full time servicemembers?
Remember to include the civilian job as that's what we were talking about. A part-time guardsman who's a civilian EMT will need to execute his trade far more than a full-time guardsman medic. This is due to a variety of reasons such as the civilian population simply having more people, and more reckless people, who will need emergency services than an Army base. A civilian commercial driver has to be a better operator than an Army driver since the civilian is subject to more DOT regulation and inspection. The Army is exempt from a lot of things when it comes to CMV-type vehicles.

I'm not sure where you got the notion of working 8 hours a day for 4 days on active duty, but it's very ..very.. wrong...
That's what the full-time National Guard works (remember, we're comparing like items, full-time vs part time with all else being equal, including branch). If we're talking about militia, and you want to compare full-time vs part-time, that means we're looking at full-time Guard vs part-time Guard. You want to compare part-time Guard to full-time Marine, and that's an invalid comparison since they aren't the same thing; they aren't even used in the same way or capable of the same things.

I've never heard of such a garrison schedule...
Because you're thinking Marine Corps, not militia. We're talking about militia, as in the National Guard, not Marine Corps. The Guard operates like the Army, not the Marine Corps, and in the Army we go home at night, not to garrison; as in we go back to our civilian houses in normal neighborhoods, we do not stay on base, not even the full-timers. Most Guard installations are armories (basically a large office suite typically attached to a high-school or collage), not bases, and even those few Guard bases do not have housing at all. If there is an exception, I'm not aware of it. Everyone in the Guard goes home at the end of the day.
 
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You don't pay, attend to, offer continuing employment and medical coverage to slaves.
I think if we held parades for them and gave them special license plates, discounts at stores and discounted medical care for life, those slaves would be happy to be slaves.
 
Actually the polling would indicate that the majority of the world has a favorable view of the US.

Opinion of the United States (All) - Indicators Database | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

Maybe it is because unlike the Russian Federation we maintain our military bases abroad through voluntary treaty rather than imperialistic wars of conquest and annexation.

America’s international image slipping
By Bruce Stokes, Special to CNN
America

China now more popular than the U.S., poll says
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/05/china-now-more-popular-than-the-us-poll-says.html

‘We the People’ Loses Appeal With People Around the World
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/u...ple-around-the-world.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
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This does nothing to change the fact that the majority of the world has a favorable opinion of the United States.

Lol. What a crock. A DP poll does though!!
 
Knowing that the national guard is the militia is basic information you should posses before saying something truly ignorant like the militia have no training. A term in the militia begins with attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training.
If we're nitpicking, the National Guard is part of the militia. Here in Virginia we also have the Virginia Defense Force, which does not go through the same training as federal forces.


Since the militia has real jobs while not training, we're usually better than the full-timers.
Only, and not complelely, true for those who do the same civilian job as their MOS...which is not the standard. Additionally, equipment maintenance is not the same.

Full-timers do not train every single day. I know the media tells you soldiers wake up at zero-freedom-thirty, run 200 miles in 30 seconds, have a bowl of liberty and go kill terrorists all day, but that's not the real world. Having a full-time military job is 90% like having a regular civilian job with a uniform. Full timers get little to no more training than part-timers.
Maybe you were in a ridiculous unit on active duty (if you ever were), but that's not true for most.

Yes, militia receive professional training. 6 months worth at the beginning, 2 weeks per year, and a weekend per month.
And how much of the drill time is spent on actual MOS training as opposed to PT tests, filling out NCOERs, the annual firing range, and all the ridiculous briefings and trainings etc? About half the year you get actual MOS training and practice.


It's literally a greater number of actual hours performing the job, and to a higher standard.
Only if you do the same job as a civilian.

If you're a full-timer, you work Tuesday through Friday, 08:00-16:30, and unless you're a pencil pusher you'll spend about half that time actually doing your job.
What unit did you serve in that only did a 4 hour week???? And my time active duty we went our time doing vehicle and equipment maintenance, crew drills, basic soldier skills, physical training, etc. All part of the job.

Remember to include the civilian job as that's what we were talking about. A part-time guardsman who's a civilian EMT will need to execute his trade far more than a full-time guardsman medic.
Unless that civilian EMT is a 13B in the military. I have no idea where you get the idea that even a majority of National Gurard members do the same job as a civilian. How many civilian 11C or 19K do you know????? But even if he is a medic, you're sadly mistaken if you think the two jobs are equivalent....Hell, a soldier in any MOS who has combat medic training (a 2 week class) can do more than EMTs can in many states.
 
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If we're nitpicking, the National Guard is part of the militia. Here in Virginia we also have the Virginia Defense Force, which does not go through the same training as federal forces.


Only, and not complelely, true for those who do the same civilian job as their MOS...which is not the standard. Additionally, equipment maintenance is not the same.

Maybe you were in a ridiculous unit on active duty (if you ever were), but that's not true for most.

And how much of the drill time is spent on actual MOS training as opposed to PT tests, filling out NCOERs, the annual firing range, and all the ridiculous briefings and trainings etc? About half the year you get actual MOS training and practice.



Only if you do the same job as a civilian.


What unit did you serve in that only did a 4 hour week???? And my time active duty we went our time doing vehicle and equipment maintenance, crew drills, basic soldier skills, physical training, etc. All part of the job.


Unless that civilian EMT is a 13B in the military. I have no idea where you get the idea that even a majority of National Gurard members do the same job as a civilian. How many civilian 11C or 19K do you know????? But even if he is a medic, you're sadly mistaken if you think the two jobs are equivalent....Hell, a soldier in any MOS who has combat medic training (a 2 week class) can do more than EMTs can in many states.
Excuse me but the combat medic, 68W, is a tad longer than 2 weeks. Please get your own facts straight befor questioning others.
 
even when this nation was quasi-isolationist, our military still fought a lot of lil' wars and battles overseas.

Correct. Even when the U.S. was a relative pipskweak and wanted to be friends with the world it found it difficult to stay on everyone's good side. The U.S. was only a few years old when the French, who'd just helped us win the American Revolution, got upset with us for signing the Jay Treaty with Britain and reneging on our debt to France, which the U.S. argued was owed to the French Crown and not the Republic (Quasi-War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Next we decided to get a real Navy after pirates kept sacking our shipping in the Mediterranean (Barbary pirates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Since Switzerland is landlocked and doesn't engage in large-scale trade by sea, it doesn't particularly need a navy. We do, and I can't envisage any entity other than the federal government funding and operating it.
 
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