View Poll Results: Should the US military be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

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Thread: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

  1. #181
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I've said that myself.
    Then why we're you arguing? Why were you pretending the claim was no trading and no professionalism?

    And...so what? We're talking about making changes. Obviously changing the structure of the army & militia is going to change the quantity and quality of training.
    No, that's not obvious. Why don't you explain how eliminbting the regular army and using only militias ( or just reducing the regular components greatla and relying mostly on militias) would make the militias as good or closer to the level of regular active duty? And if they could be, why aren't they now?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  2. #182
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That's because you are not interested in information that might challenge your presuppositions. You've got your stance, the facts bedamned
    To the contrary. I'm not interested in books that you keep peddling.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #183
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Not like the last century. Just what exactly are you talking about though? Is it military intervention? Now, I don't really care what wikipedia says on this or what they mean by "significant". It's a clearly Western centric article that ignores the long list of US interventions like the Boxer Rebellion and the creation of Liberia. We even fought a war with Mexico over Texas (who was technically a country before 1845). I'm just not sure what you mean by our meddling hasn't been like that of the last century. If you want to say we now have a wider definition of US interests, sure, but we simply weren't isolationists in any sense of the word.
    Because you ignore the founding intentions of those that produced our constitution, and executed our foreign policy for the first third or half of our countries history. There simply is no comparison between US interventionism before the dawn of the 20th century and our military adventurism since.

    The United States remained politically isolated all through the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th, an unusual feat in western history. Historians have attributed the fact to a geographical position at once separate and far removed from Europe.

    During the 1800s, the United States spanned North America and commenced to piece together an empire in the Caribbean and the Pacific — without departing from the traditional perspective. It fought the War of 1812, the Mexican War, and the Spanish-American War without joining alliances or fighting in Europe.

    The isolationist point of view was still viable in 1823 when President James Monroe gave voice to what would later be termed the Monroe Doctrine, "In the wars of the European powers, in matters relating to themselves, we have never taken part, nor does it comport with our policy, so to do."

    http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1601.html
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-28-15 at 12:28 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #184
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Citizen defense forces have defeated the US military in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and they defeated the British empire during the American revolution, so I voted yes.

  5. #185
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Then why we're you arguing?
    The conversation was turned from the actual topic onto "let's bash the national guard again". We get no ****ing funding and you want to kick us while we're down. Guardsmen want that training, we eat it up, but schools cost money and the Guard is the first branch cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, that's not obvious.
    Well what did you think was going to happen with all the equiptment and facilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why don't you explain how eliminbting the regular army and using only militias ( or just reducing the regular components greatla and relying mostly on militias) would make the militias as good or closer to the level of regular active duty? And if they could be, why aren't they now?
    Sure, if you folks can manage to set asside bashing my branch then I would be happy to.

  6. #186
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Because you ignore the founding intentions of those that produced our constitution, and executed our foreign policy for the first third or half of our countries history. There simply is no comparison between US interventionism before the dawn of the 20th century and our military adventurism since.
    I'm not ignoring anything. You made a claim about the US' actions. I questioned that claim and showed evidence to the contrary. If you don't like it, just say so, however don't try and change your claim and make it about intentions. The US may have held a policy of non-interventionism, but in practice, it surely wasn't there.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-28-15 at 01:04 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #187
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm not ignoring anything. You made a claim about the US' actions. I questioned that claim and showed evidence to the contrary. If you don't like it, just say so, however don't try and change your claim and make it about intentions.
    I'm changing nothing. You, are wrong about USFP pre 20th century. It's not about what I like, I could give a **** what you believe. But if you give a **** about what American foreign policy was pre military adventurism, then read instead of blowing, understand?

    The process of distortion started about a century ago, when certain fateful steps were taken that in time altered fundamentally the character of our republic. One idea of America was abandoned and another took its place, although no conscious, deliberate decision was ever made. Eventually, this change affected all areas of American life, so that today our nation is radically different from the original ideal, and, indeed, from the ideal probably still cherished by most Americans.

    The turning point was signaled by a series of military adventures: the war with Spain, the war for the conquest of the Philippines, and, finally, our entry into the First World War. Together, they represented a profound break with American traditions of government.

    American Foreign Policy: The Turning Point, 1898-1919: Newsroom: The Independent Institute
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #188
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The conversation was turned from the actual topic onto "let's bash the national guard again". We get no ****ing funding and you want to kick us while we're down.
    No, it didn't. The ability of reserve components (which includes the Guard) to substitute for the regular components is part of the issue of the OP.


    Well what did you think was going to happen with all the equiptment and facilities?
    Would the militias have the a ability to continue to maintain them?


    Sure, if you folks can manage to set asside bashing my branch then I would be happy to.
    I doubt it.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  9. #189
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, it didn't.
    The content of the posts on this thread before you even jumped in says otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    The ability of reserve components (which includes the Guard) to substitute for the regular components is part of the issue of the OP.
    When there's a domestic emergincy we do just fine. While deployed we typicaly do better than our reguler Army counterparts. I confess that part of that superior performance is due to the Guard feeling like we have something to prove when around reguler Army units. While the Guard limousine driver has to show the WestPoint-grad convoy commander how to properly call for fire, while actualy taking fire, the Guard motorcycle sailsman is showing the 82nd Airborn Major how to properly conduct a base-defence drill. I have every confidence in the Guard.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Would the militias have the a ability to continue to maintain them?
    Just as we can now with our thinner ranks and leaner budget.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-28-15 at 03:04 AM.

  10. #190
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    Re: Who thinks the US military should be replaced with a citizen defensive body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    See there's a rub, though. If you sign to serve and then some jackass takes office and wants to send you off to a perfectly illegal conflict, you are not a volinteer. You are given orders, not requests. You didn't sign knowing that guy was going to be elected. You didn't sign knowing you would be sent by a President currently engaged in treason to an illegal war. You have no choice, you are a slave at that point.

    If you want an all volunteer army then you have to use militia almost exclusively, because militia can bail at any time. Only then do you know that the soldiers are there because they volunteer.
    I think people shouldn't be bound to fight in wars they don't believe in, but at the same time, people should keep their word and understand what they are getting into before agreeing to anything.

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