View Poll Results: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

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  • Yes

    241 68.08%
  • No

    13 3.67%
  • Sometimes

    100 28.25%
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Thread: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

  1. #71
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    When Reagan came to office
    That apple is so juicy, I'm going to take another bite. I'll let Dick Cheney himself do the talking

    "You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."
    So there you have it folks, even Dick Cheney says that deficits don't matter and that Ronald Reagan proved it.

    So the government needs to start spending money to create jobs for people who want to work.

    Bush Sought 'Way' To Invade Iraq? - CBS News

  2. #72
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are looking only at what is seen, and not what is unseen.

    The problem with government spending is that the government has to get every dollar it spends. It's not that you can just add up all the expenditures and claim victory - there is an opportunity cost. Every dollar that the government doesn't borrow or tax is a dollar that would otherwise have been put to some other use. So the answer to "does it create growth" is "if it is allocated more efficiently than it would have been on the market, or if it solves a tragedy of the commons that allows growth to increase". For example, investment in transportation infrastructure (roads. canals.) can boost growth, and investment in basic security of property rights and enforcement of contract (police. military) boost growth can boost growth. Spending on cowboy poetry festivals and spending-for-the-sake-of-spending... less so.
    I think you gave a good example wrt spending on infrastructure, etc. I would say in addition to that proper expenditure on education can also boost growth. Furthermore, spending for the sake of spending is ridiculous, so I agree with that.

    Where I tend to disagree with you is your point on every dollar that is not taxed or borrowed is money that would have otherwise been put to use. Although technically the Federal Reserve is not a part of the government, it is empowered directly by the government. As such it is an extension of government power. That being the case, the trillions of dollars that the Federal Reserve spent to buy up toxic assets is money can be viewed as an extension of government spending, and is money that came out of nowhere. It was created simply by an entry in a computer, nothing more. It is not money that otherwise would have been put to use.

    That said, your post was decent.

  3. #73
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It went to bail out you buddies at the big banks.
    They're not my buddies. I was against propping up the banks.

    Let them fail and be bought up by whoever saw value in the carcass. Same with GM. Can't cut it under current management. No problem, someone will buy you.

    Ronald Reagan doubled and tripled deficit spending. Not only that but the debt went up TWO TRILLION dollars on his watch. Yep, one for the Gipper!
    You really should get your info from places beyond democraticunderground.com

    Reagan made an agreement with the then monopoly for 40-years Demokrat Congress to reduce taxes, close loopholes and reduce spending. Demokrats saw the money puring in and did what they do best... spend, spend, spend.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #74
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    They're not my buddies. I was against propping up the banks.

    Let them fail and be bought up by whoever saw value in the carcass. Same with GM. Can't cut it under current management. No problem, someone will buy you.
    But they are the part of the private sector that YOU say knows so much better than the government on how money should be spent. Not only that, but your buddy Hank Paulson was telling everybody that if we didn't bail them out EVERYONE INCLUDED YOU was going to do down. Don't throw your buddies under the bus.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Reagan made an agreement
    Again, this from Dick Cheney

    "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."
    Yep, that's what he said. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Since that's the case, the government needs to start spending money to create jobs for people who want to work.

  5. #75
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No it doesn't necessarily. No one is knocking on the Federal Reserve's door forcing it to pay all that bad debt on it's books.
    As I said, it is more complicated. The government is buying a lot of private goods and distorting away from the efficient production. The money is going into the financial system and reducing interest rates via the FED, which is buying bonds and squirting money into the banks and general financial sector. The consequences are widely visible in the price of bonds through shares. We are paying via a sub-optimal allocation in the economy. What is nice for politicians is that the harm being wrought and the loses being made are hard to attribute directly. It is similar with a little other slant as with Clinton. The harm is hard to attribute and quantify even when the bubble pops. That is why there is so much finger pointing. The public just cannot tell, how it all hangs together.

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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That apple is so juicy, I'm going to take another bite. I'll let Dick Cheney himself do the talking

    So there you have it folks, even Dick Cheney says that deficits don't matter and that Ronald Reagan proved it.

    So the government needs to start spending money to create jobs for people who want to work.

    Bush Sought 'Way' To Invade Iraq? - CBS News
    Let's say Republicans do not believe the debt is a problem... which is a bunch of horse manure... what we have seen in the past is Demokrats screaming about the debt. Obama said Bush was unpartiotic because of it. Since coming to office, Obama has nearly doubled our debt!

    Where are the Demokrats on the issue of the debt???????????????????????
    These folks and their idiotic ideas and schemes have cost the most of 17 TRILLION in debt and 60TRILLION in unfunded liabilities.

    The Tea Party... created by Republicans and some Democrats who are concerned about fiscal irresponsibility.
    Then we have the propagandists in the press who defend Obama, and the socialist state.

    Last edited by zimmer; 02-24-15 at 09:32 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  7. #77
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    As I said, it is more complicated. The government is buying a lot of private goods and distorting away from the efficient production. The money is going into the financial system and reducing interest rates via the FED, which is buying bonds and squirting money into the banks and general financial sector. The consequences are widely visible in the price of bonds through shares. We are paying via a sub-optimal allocation in the economy. What is nice for politicians is that the harm being wrought and the loses being made are hard to attribute directly. It is similar with a little other slant as with Clinton. The harm is hard to attribute and quantify even when the bubble pops. That is why there is so much finger pointing. The public just cannot tell, how it all hangs together.
    Before I comment let me clarify something. What exactly do you mean by the price of bonds through shares?

  8. #78
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Let's say Republicans do not believe the debt is a problem... which is a bunch of horse manure... what we have seen in the past is Demokrats screaming about the debt. Obama said Bush was unpartiotic because of it. Since coming to office, Obama has nearly doubled out debt!

    Where are the Demokrats on the issue of the debt???????????????????????
    These folks and their idiotic ideas and schemes have cost the most of 17 TRILLION in debt and 60TRILLION in unfunded liabilities.
    So when you say "these folks" you are talking about Democrats and Republicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The Tea Party... created by Republicans and some Democrats who are concerned about fiscal irresponsibility.
    Since government debt is such a problem, how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has such massive debt, yet the world keeps buying that debt and accepting dollars?

  9. #79
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Before I comment let me clarify something. What exactly do you mean by the price of bonds through shares?
    "the price of Bonds though shares" was supposed to mean "the prices for many or even most financial assets" have gone up because the FED has been pumping money into the markets leading to vast miss-allocation of resources.

  10. #80
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    Re: Does governnent spending produce economic growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So when you say "these folks" you are talking about Democrats and Republicans?
    No... the paragraph was aimed directly at Demokrats.


    Since government debt is such a problem, how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has such massive debt, yet the world keeps buying that debt and accepting dollars?
    The dollar’s role as the world’s primary reserve currency helps all of us Americans by keeping interest rates low. Foreign countries buy United States Treasury debt not just as an investment, but because dollar-denominated assets are the best way to hold foreign exchange reserves.
    Future Of The Dollar As World Reserve Currency - Forbes
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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