View Poll Results: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve

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Thread: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

  1. #21
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Yes. He, Poroshenko, clearly lied. Many Ukrainians think he is afraid of the Kiev Nazi Mafia. The same people that provided the muscle for the Maidan and perhaps the people responsible for many of the Maidan deaths. He's really going to have to watch his back. The US may find their allies to be a bunch of Nazis, but then, when all you are really after is land, resources, and big bank deals, perhaps that's enough. If so, don't you think Kerry, the CIA/NED and other players should just say it out loud. Cut the charade of liberty, justice and democracy where we have initiated a coup to overthrow a democracy. It must be way more complicated than my pay grade, but since all USA diplomats speak with a forked tongue, maybe it's just a language problem, or a pack of lies, eh?
    What the hell is your issue about land resources big money capitalism blah blah.

    News flash from a 16 year old kiddo. Humanity, since its genesis, has been fighting historically over three things: Money, land, and women (women not so much anymore).

    Why do you think Russia gives a **** about Ukraine? Economic interests...

    Our giving a ****? As you pointed out, economic interests.

    Yet you over-react as if this was wrong or somehow new or can even be fixed. It's in our nature as humans, get over it.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  2. #22
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    What the hell is your issue about land resources big money capitalism blah blah.

    News flash from a 16 year old kiddo. Humanity, since its genesis, has been fighting historically over three things: Money, land, and women (women not so much anymore).

    Why do you think Russia gives a **** about Ukraine? Economic interests...

    Our giving a ****? As you pointed out, economic interests.

    Yet you over-react as if this was wrong or somehow new or can even be fixed. It's in our nature as humans, get over it.
    Do we take that as a tacit support for what Putins doing on the merits that countries advance their own interests?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #23
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    What the hell is your issue about land resources big money capitalism blah blah.

    News flash from a 16 year old kiddo. Humanity, since its genesis, has been fighting historically over three things: Money, land, and women (women not so much anymore).

    Why do you think Russia gives a **** about Ukraine? Economic interests...

    Our giving a ****? As you pointed out, economic interests.

    Yet you over-react as if this was wrong or somehow new or can even be fixed. It's in our nature as humans, get over it.
    We'll send Putin a memo that it is OK to just kick ass and take the whole Ukraine because if it's good for the goose (USA), it's good for the gander (Russia). I don't have any issue wth land resources, big money, Capitalism, etc. My issue is with a covert agenda under the guise of liberty and democracy to control a Nation by fomenting death, chaos, and destruction. The agenda is entirely CORPORATE and will impoverish Ukrainians, lower their wages (good for Corporate employment), steal their patrimony (land, resources, pipelines, infrastructure) for Western Central Bank advantage and I didn't vote for that. I wouldn't vote for that. Most citizens of the USA would not support that if they were aware of what was really happening. CorpGov, don't ya' know? Think NWO, New World Order of CORPORATIONS running gov't.

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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Do we take that as a tacit support for what Putins doing on the merits that countries advance their own interests?
    Take that as "I understand why Putin is doing what he is doing, although I don't support it."

    I only support what furthers US interests thank you very much. The Russians I can give a **** about.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  5. #25
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    One main question is how to deploy Nato assets in Europe. There should be more in the Eastern countries and fewer in the West.
    They let defense expenditures fall. They did not want to piss Putin off.
    After the Georgia incidents is when this should have happened.
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    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
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    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  6. #26
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Take that as "I understand why Putin is doing what he is doing, although I don't support it."

    I only support what furthers US interests thank you very much. The Russians I can give a **** about.
    Hey, love the honesty.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #27
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    They let defense expenditures fall. They did not want to piss Putin off.
    After the Georgia incidents is when this should have happened.
    Of course, it should have all been done earlier. But at the time of the Georgian embroglio it should already have been Finished. We knew the Russians were dangerous as did most Eastern Europeans and the rest of the world for that matter. But a few countries in the EU have highly miss informed populations that make them dangerous for strategy, loose canons in negotiations and stumbling blocks, when you are in a tight spot.

    So it will be interesting to see if they will have learned this time. After all, Putin proved the mantra about the EU having guaranteed peace in Europe was a fantastic lie.

  8. #28
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    No one, except Poroshenko, can know if he lied or not.

    To lie requires an intent to deceive.

    And only he can know what his intent was.


    There should be a third option 'Unknown'

  9. #29
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    No one, except Poroshenko, can know if he lied or not.

    To lie requires an intent to deceive.

    And only he can know what his intent was.


    There should be a third option 'Unknown'
    Don't get me wrong, your point is well taken, though I doubt Pero could have told such a lie that he would be the only one knowledgable of.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #30
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    Re: Did Poroshenko lie about troops at Debaltseve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    No one knows precisely what Poroshenko knew and when except the government hierarchy. Debaltseve was indeed a tactical defeat for the government, but it was also a strategic victory in the sense that it moved several Western nations significantly closer to arming Ukraine. Casualties aside, I think the Poroshenko came out ahead here. The rebels obtained a destroyed town. But in the process the world witnessed their ceasefire violations, prisoners will be repatriated, OSCE international monitors are now in the area, and some nations moved several notches closer to arming Ukraine. Whether he controls the rebels or not, Putin takes an international credibility hit here either way.
    We know what he said and we know what people were reporting. If he did not know then that is gross incompetence to the point of being absurd.

    So you think that the deliberate sacrifice of the lives of his men in this way was worth what you would call a "strategic victory"?

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