View Poll Results: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

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Thread: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

  1. #71
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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    It could be substantially degraded. It would/could need bombing Iran back to the stone age.
    But the genie is out of the bottle.
    The issue is to ensure they do not make a run for a nuke.
    Can that be negotiated - yes- but Iran will demand an end state for inspections.
    Eventually they will have one. That is my opinion.
    Prevents any invasion.
    Reason they began their program.
    You are right that the genie is out of the bottle. Iran has mastered the nuclear cycle so if they really wanted to build a bomb, they could do it. That's why the only realistic way forward is to create the conditions such that they feel no need to build one and get them to agree to rigid inspections.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post


    U b barking up the wrong tree dawg! You should get into a pissing contest with that "the great Satan will be destroyed with an iron fist" and "the Korean peninsula will be turned to a sea of ashes" crowd.
    Nope- I said what would be needed in the event of war. Did I state I agreed with it, nope.
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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You are right that the genie is out of the bottle. Iran has mastered the nuclear cycle so if they really wanted to build a bomb, they could do it. That's why the only realistic way forward is to create the conditions such that they feel no need to build one and get them to agree to rigid inspections.
    What I have been saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  4. #74
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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Nope- I said what would be needed in the event of war. Did I state I agreed with it, nope.
    I see. Sorry about that.

  5. #75
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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No it cannot.
    Um. Yeah. It's really easy to do, in fact. It is why Iran halted progress on it's program after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and why Qaddafi gave up his WMD's altogether (and aren't we glad he did).

    You don't have to have a nuclear reactor to enrich uranium. It would not be difficult to set up a small scale enrichment facility somewhere that could not be detected
    Tell me more about your knowledge of MASINT defeat. 'Cause I think you are making crap up

    If Iran is determined to do that it is possible. It would take them longer to enrich the material for a bomb, but it could be done.
    Until we bombed the facility, and they had to start over. Months/Years of work and millions/billions of dollars for them, Days/Hours of work and thousands of dollars for us.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Um. Yeah. It's really easy to do, in fact. It is why Iran halted progress on it's program after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and why Qaddafi gave up his WMD's altogether (and aren't we glad he did).
    No it isn't easy to do once someone has mastered the techniques necessary to enrich uranium. And what you say is not a fact. Qaddafi nor Iran, nor Iraq has mastered the enrichment of uranium prior to 2003. You have said in fact. I really don't think you know what you are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Tell me more about your knowledge of MASINT defeat. 'Cause I think you are making crap up
    No I am not making crap up. That is something that you always say. I know a little about physics. That's what I studied in school. I know a little about chemistry, although I admit it's not much. No I don't know what our intelligence capabilities in Iran are. What I am sure about is that they cannot know everything that goes on in Iran. And I am fairly confident that small scale enrichment of uranium can take place undetected in a country the size of Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Until we bombed the facility, and they had to start over. Months/Years of work and millions/billions of dollars for them, Days/Hours of work and thousands of dollars for us.
    Like I said, it appears you don't know a thing about the process of enriching uranium. Do you even realize something so basic as a nuclear reactor is not needed to enrich it? Basically the uranium is mined, crushed, milled and converted into yellow cake using various chemicals. The yellow cake is then converted uranium hexafluoride by chemical reactions using nitric acid, hydrofluoric acid, fluorine, etc. Once you have the uranium hexafluoride, it can be heated to form a gas. The U235, which is what you need for a fission bomb, can be separated from the U238. You don't need a nuclear reactor to do any of that. Since you like to use the phrase "in fact", IN FACT any freshman physics student knows about the cyclotron formula. Using that formula one could separate the U235 by putting the gaseous uranium hexafluoride into a magnetic field at a certain velocity. I said that because it could be done, even without centrifuges and certainly without a reactor. However one could simply run a small number centrifuges, and over many years have enough U235 for a bomb. Now what I just said is a fact. And even I, with the little knowledge of physics that I have know that. That is how common that knowledge is. Someone who is expert could do all that, undetected on a small scale.

    Now it appears that you may know something about our intelligence capabilities. Perhaps you know enough to tell us how one could keep what I have said from happening on a small scale. I contributed what I know to the discussion and what I have said is hard scientific fact. It is not made up. So it's your turn to contribute to the discussion. Tell us exactly what our intelligence capabilities are, and how exactly they can keep what I described from happening on a small scale.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 02-21-15 at 08:57 AM.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It appears that some feel that Iran's nuclear program can be stopped by military force alone. But this is a flawed notion because it requires that such force be applied for an infinite amount of time. It will not work.
    The notion that Iran's nuclear program can't be stopped by military force is silly.
    Our military force is completely capable of killing every single man, woman, and child within that territory.
    We could even hunt down and kill every dog and cat.
    We could even take it to the next level and turn their entire desert into glass.

    You seem to be stuck in the mind set of nation building.
    For thousands of year war has been about eliminating your enemy. It is only in recent centuries that war has become a game of internal politics and profit.

    I am against any military action.
    The treaty stands a reasonable chance to work if it is not sabotaged by our Right Wing fanatics and by Israel.
    But do not kid yourself. The question is not whether military force can do the job. The question is in how much of that military force are we willing to apply.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    The notion that Iran's nuclear program can't be stopped by military force is silly.
    Our military force is completely capable of killing every single man, woman, and child within that territory.
    We could even hunt down and kill every dog and cat.
    We could even take it to the next level and turn their entire desert into glass.

    You seem to be stuck in the mind set of nation building.
    For thousands of year war has been about eliminating your enemy. It is only in recent centuries that war has become a game of internal politics and profit.

    I am against any military action.
    The treaty stands a reasonable chance to work if it is not sabotaged by our Right Wing fanatics and by Israel.
    But do not kid yourself. The question is not whether military force can do the job. The question is in how much of that military force are we willing to apply.
    Well it is certain that we could destroy Iran to an extent that you would not recognize it. I'm not so sure that we could do it as completely as you suggest. I would still put forward that even with a very strong nuclear attack that a small enrichment facility COULD escape the obliteration and still make a bomb possible. The chances would be small, but it would be possible. As such, I don't think what you have proposed is even theoretically an absolute guarantee.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    I thought it would be interesting to take a stab at calculating how many nukes you would need to totally destroy Iran. I looked it up and Iran is approximately 640000 square miles in area. That is equivalent to a square that has 800x800 as its dimensions. Let's assume that with a powerful nuke you could totally destroy an area with an eight mile radius. That means you would need 100 x 100 or 10000 powerful nukes to completely destroy Iran. I don't think we currently have that many, but I suppose we could make them.

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    Re: Can Iran's nuclear program be stopped by military force alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It appears that some feel that Iran's nuclear program can be stopped by military force alone. But this is a flawed notion because it requires that such force be applied for an infinite amount of time. It will not work.
    What do you mean? The premise behind the 'force option' is that by launching an attack that is sufficiently effective you will destroy the bulk of the progress Iran has made with the destruction of years of effort, billions of dollars, and the like. In doing so you make the cost of reconstruction under the likely possibility of bombardment untenable or impossible. Furthermore once you destroy the nuclear infrastructure it isn't as though it just pops up again you have to start from the beginning and this puts you in an advantageous position if you've already committed to a military option of destroying nascent facilities instead of a well developed and dispersed program.

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