View Poll Results: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

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Thread: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

  1. #11
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Voted "other" as it is more complicated than that.

    But I might be willing to say that ISIS would not have the numbers today if Saddam was still in power *and* al-Assad had better control over his nation as well *and* other nations in the region also had better control over their respective nations. Like Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and a handful of others.

    As sad as this is going to sound most in that region seem to be better off under a military and/or religious dictator than otherwise.

    There is something about that culture and ideology suggests that western world leaning concepts of freedoms and tolerances are simply incompatible with most of that region. That does not mean I think Saddam, or al-Assad, or leaders of these other nations are peaceful people. Just saying that for this culture when absent of a clear and definitive ruler we have issues with pockets of the culture turning on each other and everyone else with horrific results. Terrorism, Islamic Fundamentalism, whatever you want to call it... all seems to have a direct correlation to region instability. Sometimes our interventionism seems to be a core cause, other times the mix is too complex to blame on any one party.

    But in this case for ISIS, we seem to have a group that capitalized on a multiple way civil war in one nation and a weak government and military in another. The latter we are directly responsible for. As much as I am against all of this, leaving a residual force to handle Iraq might have slowed down ISIS being able to flood from Syria into Iraq and mobilize just enough people that have been in Iraq for generations anyway thinking along the lines ISIS demands.

    And if you objectively look at the region and when problems come into power, US and European hands tend to be involved. Hard to judge otherwise, we seem to cause a significant number of our own problems. Seems to me it is because we continually go into the region expecting people look at ideology the same way we do, only to find there region by majority does not have the aptitude for such ideology. For instance, democracy means little to a group that looks to a religion where the text itself has a baked in ideology for government authority. And that authority has nothing to do with freedoms or tolerances.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    A better question would be: would Saddam Hussein have prevented ISIS from coming into existence and the answer is, no. There's no way he could have prevented a rebellion in Syria. There's no way he could have stopped an ISIS invasion of Iraq, since he couldn't move his forces into the no-fly zone to engage them.

    On a side note: the feverish effort to blame Bush is becoming embarrassing for the Libbos.
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    ISIS specifically? Who knows.
    But what ISIS represents certainly would.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A better question would be: would Saddam Hussein have prevented ISIS from coming into existence and the answer is, no. There's no way he could have prevented a rebellion in Syria. There's no way he could have stopped an ISIS invasion of Iraq, since he couldn't move his forces into the no-fly zone to engage them.

    On a side note: the feverish effort to blame Bush is becoming embarrassing for the Libbos.
    Do you realize that Saddam, ISIS and the largest population in Syria are Sunni.


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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    the answer is, and can only be... I don't know.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Do you realize that Saddam, ISIS and the largest population in Syria are Sunni.
    That most probably means that Saddam would have allied with ISIS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the answer is, and can only be... I don't know.
    Perhaps, but I would counter that we have enough history in the region to make fairly accurate assumptions and observations of how ISIS came into such quick power. As such, we can then evaluate what we could have handled a bit differently to mitigate those things. I agree we cannot be totally accurate here, but we have to do some evaluations else we will set ourselves up to make the same mistake time and time again.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No
    Yes
    Other
    It's a good question, and I respond yes. Seems to me that ISIS had its origins out of the conflict in Syria and there's no evidence I know of that would indicate the "Arab Spring" actions in Syria and other countries wouldn't have happened if Saddam was around. It's also possible, although only speculation, that Saddam whose government was minority Sunni would have been funding and supplying ISIS willingly, without ISIS having to take what it needs/wants. It's also possible, however, that Saddam would have been smart enough to resist the temptation and see the danger and be a better foil than the current and recent past leadership of Iraq has been.

    An equally valid question, from my perspective, would be "Would ISIS exist today if Bashar al-Assad had been removed from power quickly?" And my answer to that question would be no.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Perhaps, but I would counter that we have enough history in the region to make fairly accurate assumptions and observations of how ISIS came into such quick power. As such, we can then evaluate what we could have handled a bit differently to mitigate those things. I agree we cannot be totally accurate here, but we have to do some evaluations else we will set ourselves up to make the same mistake time and time again.
    that's true as well... my response was more to point out the false choices of the poll than anything else.

    if had to guess if they would exist if Saddam was still around... I would say yes.. they would exist.
    primarily because existed while Saddam was alive and in power, albeit under a different name.

    ISIS is the latest version of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.... all that **** started back in 1999, in Jordan.


    would they be able to control wide swaths of Iraq?... that i don't know..
    too many variables to really put together an accurate guess on that particular question.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    In Syria, they would exist. So whose side were we supposed to take, Assad allied with Iran or with ISIS?

    But prior to Obama's failure to negotiate a SOFA with Iraq who knew about them ?

    And where they a threat ?

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