View Poll Results: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

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Thread: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

  1. #131
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    The group (the Islamic State or ISIS) originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which was renamed Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn—commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI)—when the group pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. As Jama'at and later AQI, the group participated since August 2003 in the Iraqi insurgency which had followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which in October 2006 proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI). ISI gained a significant presence in Al Anbar Governorate, Diyala Governorate and Baghdad Governorate.


    Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Has China bitten us in the ass? Btw, it's not hindsight for everybody.
    1.China's support of the north Koreans in the Korean war.
    2.China's support of the Vietcong in the Vietnam war.
    3.China threatening our Japanese ally.

    Those of us standing in protest of the invasion of Iraq had no delusions about the future.
    Unless everyone on the anti-war side is Mistress Cleo then the anti-war side could only speculate.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #133
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    No.

    Terrorist didn't exist in Iraq while Saddam was in power. Extortion and outright brutality from Iraqi government lapdogs maybe, but not terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A better question would be: would Saddam Hussein have prevented ISIS from coming into existence and the answer is, no. There's no way he could have prevented a rebellion in Syria. There's no way he could have stopped an ISIS invasion of Iraq, since he couldn't move his forces into the no-fly zone to engage them.

    On a side note: the feverish effort to blame Bush is becoming embarrassing for the Libbos.
    I disagree.

    Saddam's had a decent national defense system in place even after Operation Desert Storm. They couldn't contend with the overwhelming military force we unleashed upon them, but they certainly had the ability to put down any rebellion within its borders and had its military in the north that would have repelled any northern aggression. Of course, he may have let the Kurds get slaughtered, but there's no way he would have let any outside invaders come into Iraq. It would explain why no other country except the US had every invaded Iraq under Saddam's watch.

    Now, I agree with you that the no-fly zone that the UN imposed would have been a problem for him, but I think he would have ignored it if Syrian air craft came south to attack his country. He certainly had the air power to repel them.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Sadaam laid the smack down on these fools.

  5. #135
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Anyone who answered "yes" forgets how Sadaam ruled that country with an iron fist.

    Now the cat's away, and they mice are playing, so to speak.

    It's as we all feared - some people are not ready for democracy.

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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    A more interesting question: Would ISIS exist if Bush were still president?

    I believe Obama pulling out and generally neglecting Iraq is part of the reason we have an ISIS problem today.

  7. #137
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The group (the Islamic State or ISIS) originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which was renamed Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn—commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI)—when the group pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. As Jama'at and later AQI, the group participated since August 2003 in the Iraqi insurgency which had followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which in October 2006 proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI). ISI gained a significant presence in Al Anbar Governorate, Diyala Governorate and Baghdad Governorate.


    Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I think most people rightly interpret the poll question as "Would ISIS exist in Iraq today if Saddam was still in power?"

    But from a literal interpretation, you are correct. ISIS, formerly known as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, certainly did exist even while Saddam was alive and ruling Iraq. However, I seriously doubt they'd ever have gained any traction in Iraq if Saddam was still ruling that country today.

    Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (Arabic: جماعة التوحيد والجهاد‎, Organization of Monotheism and Jihad) was a militant Jihadist[1] group led by the Jordanian national Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. This group's name may be abbreviated as JTJ or shortened to Tawhid and Jihad, Tawhid wal-Jihad, Tawhid al-Jihad, Al Tawhid or Tawhid. The group started in Jordan, then became a decentralized network during the Iraq insurgency in which foreign fighters were widely thought to play a key role, though some analysts said that it may have also had a considerable Iraqi membership.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-22-15 at 07:39 PM.
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    A more interesting question: Would ISIS exist if Bush were still president?

    I believe Obama pulling out and generally neglecting Iraq is part of the reason we have an ISIS problem today.
    Well, considering that he could only run for President twice...

    But I'll go with that hypothetical...

    Assuming GWB had the same neocon regime, no. I think the newly elected Iraqi government was more emboldened once the American presidential transition team changed hands. I do believe it was as many Republicans have said, that President Obama wanted American military (combat) forces out of Iraq but he was also following the SOFA that was in place at the time. Now, did he "find" a grey area? I'm sure he did (i.e., agreed upon troop levels and asylum for U.S. military personnel from Iraqi law), but unless we wanted to be viewed as "occupiers" and not "liberators" who respect the sovereignty of another country, I firmly believe we had no choice but to leave Iraq to govern itself. We might not like the eventual outcome, but I think it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  9. #139
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Anyone who answered "yes" forgets how Sadaam ruled that country with an iron fist.

    Now the cat's away, and they mice are playing, so to speak.

    It's as we all feared - some people are not ready for democracy.
    They never were.
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    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
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    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    NO
    But only the opinion of a "partially knowledgeable" old man ...

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