View Poll Results: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

Voters
229. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES

    12 5.24%
  • NO

    204 89.08%
  • OTHER

    13 5.68%
Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 150

Thread: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

  1. #121
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Saddam Hussein was evil, but he was contained and ISIS is not contained.
    Hindsight is 20/20. .During WWII no one knew that sticking up for the Chinese against the Japanese that China would bite us in the ass a decade or so later.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 02-21-15 at 09:35 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I voted "other." The group that became ISIS was originally a Jordanian group, so it could have existed as a low-level terrorist network. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar group would have developed in Syria as a result of the civil war there. Additionally, if Iraq descended into a Syria-esque civil war, it's highly likely that a jihadist movement would enter or form in order to fight on behalf of Saddam's Sunni regime - he'd ally with whoever was available to maintain power, and many high-ranking military officials in ISIS are former Baathist toadies.

    However, I admit that this is nothing more than inference on my part. What I do know was that de-Baathification was a far greater mistake than the invasion itself. More importantly, al-Qaeda in Iraq (ISIS' predecessor) was virtually extinguished by friendly Sunnis when 2008 came around. The sectarian Shia government of Maliki idiotically decided not to integrate these Sunni forces - known as the Awakening Councils or Sons of Iraq - into the security forces and basically told them to go **** themselves. Hence, there were no more local partners in Sunni Iraq to prevent ISIS from spreading. What's essential is that the US keeps such things in mind in any strategy to beat ISIS.

    Heya Madlib. That's pretty much what Hassan and Weiss has out there on them.




    The authors also emphasise that IS is not new, but rather emerged from the ashes of Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), one of the most brutal foes of the Americans following their 2003 invasion. AQI was largely defeated after the US convinced local tribes to rise up against them -- a strategy known as "The Awakening", which has deeply influenced IS strategy.

    "From the beginning, they've been obsessed with the Awakening," said Hassan. "They've done everything to prevent it happening again: built sleeper cells, bought loyalty, divided communities. "They've succeeded in making internal resistance practically impossible. No tribe will fight them, because they will find themselves fighting their own brothers and cousins."

    Although the Baathists were originally a secular movement, Saddam introduced a "Faith campaign" in the 1990s that sought to Islamise society. "Very few people have focused on the impact of that campaign," said Hassan. "It radicalised many Baathists and they combined the violence of the regime with that of jihadism, making them even worse than Al-Qaeda." "But they have combined religion, geopolitics, economics and much more in their ideology.....snip~


    IS has built near-impregnable base and mass appeal: new book

  3. #123
    Sage


    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,895
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What was the first failure? With regards to the red line, Assad got rid of his chemical weapons. So what are the two failures about which you speak here? Yes, like any other President and person he has had failures, but here I don't know exactly what you are talking about.
    Obama's first failure WRT Syria is to make such a ridiculous 'red line' statement in the first place.
    Obama's second failure was to make this statement in public, without knowing that he could back it up and make it stick.
    Obama's third failure was that he couldn't make it stick.
    Obama's fourth failure was that Russia got pulled into it, and in the end, an increase in Russian prominence on the world stage and reduction in US prominence on the world stage.

    So, from what I'm seeing, failures all around. It's pretty clear that Obama (or those advising him on this) are complete rubes when it comes to international politics. Give me Kissinger anytime over this lot.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  4. #124
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Obama's first failure WRT Syria is to make such a ridiculous 'red line' statement in the first place.
    Obama's second failure was to make this statement in public, without knowing that he could back it up and make it stick.
    Obama's third failure was that he couldn't make it stick.
    Obama's fourth failure was that Russia got pulled into it, and in the end, an increase in Russian prominence on the world stage and reduction in US prominence on the world stage.

    So, from what I'm seeing, failures all around. It's pretty clear that Obama (or those advising him on this) are complete rubes when it comes to international politics. Give me Kissinger anytime over this lot.
    OK, I see what you are saying. And although I think you have made legitimate criticism here I only agree with you on the first two items. With regards to the third he got rid of Assad's chemical weapons. In regards to the last, it was not a mistake to pull Russia in and although it did give Putin some points, it did not result in the reduction of U.S. prominence. That said, I understand what you are saying.

  5. #125
    Sage


    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,895
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    OK, I see what you are saying. And although I think you have made legitimate criticism here I only agree with you on the first two items. With regards to the third he got rid of Assad's chemical weapons. In regards to the last, it was not a mistake to pull Russia in and although it did give Putin some points, it did not result in the reduction of U.S. prominence. That said, I understand what you are saying.
    I try to keep my criticisms legitimate. Sometimes they are not legitimate, but that's usually related to me not understanding some specific aspect, of which I'm more than willing to learn. Yes, I do change my opinion / position when new information or considerations come to the fore.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  6. #126
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I try to keep my criticisms legitimate. Sometimes they are not legitimate, but that's usually related to me not understanding some specific aspect, of which I'm more than willing to learn. Yes, I do change my opinion / position when new information or considerations come to the fore.
    That is good. Then it is possible to have a good, robust discussion. Like I said, although I have some disagreements, what you said was indeed legitimate criticism.

  7. #127
    Guru
    sawdust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    03-04-16 @ 09:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,177

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Yes but they wouldn't be in Iraq.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  8. #128
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No
    Yes
    Other
    The actual organization ISIS? No probably not. Something else? Entirely possible I suppose. The problem with positing a change so massive and taking place across such a gulf of time (its been more than a decade) is that its impossible to predict other things that might have happened given those circumstances. Though if you wanted I'm sure we could try and drum up some interesting hypothetical's.

  9. #129
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20. .During WWII no one knew that sticking up for the Chinese against the Japanese that China would bite us in the ass a decade or so later.
    Has China bitten us in the ass? Btw, it's not hindsight for everybody. Those of us standing in protest of the invasion of Iraq had no delusions about the future.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #130
    Sage
    Fletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mentor Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    15,273

    Re: Would ISIS exist today if Saddam Hussein was still in power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The actual organization ISIS? No probably not. Something else? Entirely possible I suppose. The problem with positing a change so massive and taking place across such a gulf of time (its been more than a decade) is that its impossible to predict other things that might have happened given those circumstances. Though if you wanted I'm sure we could try and drum up some interesting hypothetical's.
    It seems to me that ISIS got its start in the Syrian civil war. That is the result of the Arab Spring not the Iraq war.

Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •