As far as Germany and France helping Putin steep the game towards an invasion of Iraq, it was indeed a an act not of "disloyalty", but of callousness and/or enmity. A lot of people do not understand enough about negotiation and game theories to have picked that up, believing in, what is said and not looking behind the words for effects and intent. But one would come to understand that, were they to do the maths on the situation back then. Most are too lazy, however, or to little educated.
But you are right that some in the US misinterpreted Schröder/Chirac to have been "disloyal" instead of just understanding that that is the nature of the scorpion. You just have to keep an eye on nations. They tend to be loose cannons.
Where you would be right, if we had a system of robust and believably general security enforcement with r2p at the global level with the appropriate legal recourse and all that, we should have general standards of weaponry. But that is something that would only be logically consistent under those circumstances. Until countries are willing to stop free riding and initiate, maintain and pay for that type of system it would only make the world more dangerous. Lots of people argue the way you do. But that is always from a position with no responsibility for international security for themselves or others and where the security is paid for by others.
Denmark BTW is not the worst offender in this, but are one of the free riders and does not honor its treaty spending obligations nor has it for very many years.
There's a huge difference between not trusting America and Israel in general and not trusting America and Israel over backwards, dark regimes such as Iran and North Korea.There is a different between blind trust as you want, and quite scepticism and alert-fullness that Europe is moving more and more towards. Trust has to be earned, and that trust there once was started to be seriously erode when Bush came to power and ever since even under Obama.
Where the hell have I said I speak for the west? My opinion are quite mainstream all across Europe, especially since the whole NSA surveillance issue. For decades we were taught to trust and admire the US and what it stands for, but since the fall of the wall we have gain our independence once again and started to question the validity of what we learned.. American citizens could do a dose of reality as well these days.
Tell me, why should any European trust what America or Israel says or does? We barely trust our own governments..
I don't have to explain to you how ridiculous that notion is. And I don't believe you represent the mainstream European opinion. Not saying that Europeans are all pro-American, pro-Israeli folk but not all of them engage the issue with such hateful passion that you choose to engage it with. We have more than enough European posters here and yet only one European poster whose opinion I can always predict with 100% accuracy.
It is also not true because unlike you European leaders clearly show that they do not wish to see an Iranian or North Korean nuclear capability. They clearly understand that such a situation is a risk to themselves as well, and not just to Israel or just to the US.
Last edited by Apocalypse; 02-19-15 at 08:15 AM.
"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
The U.S. needs to stop shielding and funding Israel. It's simply not worth it.