View Poll Results: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT

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    18 40.00%
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    27 60.00%
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Thread: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

  1. #151
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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Right, but they can't enforce that requirement and if they tried they might get nuked.
    Luckily, most of the trouble makers do not have the means.

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    How many wars has India fought with Pakistan?
    Only a half dozen. Those two are still deciding on where the boarders are.

    But that is another point. Even peaceful countries fight. And the danger of atomic strike is especially large, where human error is a major problem and short delivery periods reduce the time to check for them before your second strike capability is gone.

  3. #153
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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    So you're asking why should the West trust its own nations such as the US and Israel with nuclear weapons?
    What kind of ridiculous question is that?
    Why should we? The US is the only nation to use the weapons. Israel has sold its tech to a hostile racist country. Why on earth should we trust them any more than Iran or North Korea? The US and Israel spies on us.. assassinates and kidnaps people on our streets. When was the last time the UK or France or Germany were caught in killing people in the US or Israel?

    There is a different between blind trust as you want, and quite scepticism and alert-fullness that Europe is moving more and more towards. Trust has to be earned, and that trust there once was started to be seriously erode when Bush came to power and ever since even under Obama.

    And why do you believe that you speak in the name of the West? You who detest it? You who hate America and Israel with great passion and oppose anything Western, siding with the darkest and most backwards regimes such as the Iranian one or practically anyone who opposes the West? Give me a break.
    Where the hell have I said I speak for the west? My opinion are quite mainstream all across Europe, especially since the whole NSA surveillance issue. For decades we were taught to trust and admire the US and what it stands for, but since the fall of the wall we have gain our independence once again and started to question the validity of what we learned.. American citizens could do a dose of reality as well these days.

    Tell me, why should any European trust what America or Israel says or does? We barely trust our own governments..
    PeteEU

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Didn't the US spy on Germany? We're still allies. Nations spy on each other. It's not that big of a deal.
    Yes you are, but not as big allies as you use to be. The US has burnt quite a few bridges over the last 15 years.

    Much as it displeases Muslims around the world, the US/UK and Israel are strong allies, and will continue to be so for a long time.
    No doubt about that, as long as APIAC is around and which is why the US will always be seen as an Israeli puppet. As for the UK, that relationship with Israel has changed a lot and will change a lot after the next election. Bibi calling for Jews to go to Israel from Europe did not go down well among all established political parties.
    PeteEU

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    No nation is required to sign the treaty. The NPT is strictly voluntary.
    I know. Only, we carry on as if some must, while others need not. I suggest that none are in the position to say who can have, and who can not.

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What ally? Israel? HAHAHAHA you have got to be kidding. Israel is no ally of the US.. at best a tolerated accomplice in a sea of hostile fish. Allies dont attack your military. Allies dont spy on you and plant moles in your intelligence organisations. Allies dont assassinate people in friendly countries.
    I do not think you understand the concept of an ally. Allies do not see eye to eye on every matter. Not even on every matter of great importance to one or the other. As a matter of fact, allies can be allies on a very narrow but overridingly important objective. Think FDR and Uncle Joe. I cannot really imagine any important country that does not spy on its most friendly neighbors to an extent. Or do you want to tell me that France does not spy on EU institutions and German activities? That would be irresponsible.

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that's the height of hypocrisy
    if israel is seeking to reign in nuclear proliferation it should sign the NPT
    and comply with its terms
    until then, its views should carry NO weight on the matter

    and if it truly wants to deny iran nuclear arms, it should abandon its own nuclear arms
    then, iran would have no more justification to attain nuclear parity
    israel is an international hypocrite on this issue
    Heckling the other team while supporting your own is not hypocrisy. Likewise Isreal trying to deny Iran nukes while protecting it's own is not hypocrisy. We do all play by the same rules but those rules aren't what you think they are.

    And if Isreal does sign the treaty, they're fully justified in carrying out a black nuke program. Isreal has a moral blank check to do absolutely whatever it needs to do to survive.

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    If the EU ever began settlements in Israel, you can bet your ass that the US would fly to their aid in a second. General Dempsey already said that no matter who threatens Israel, the US military will respond accordingly.
    "It's a big club, and you ain't in it! The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged. It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it..." - George Carlin

  9. #159
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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that's the height of hypocrisy
    Wrong. There is no hypocrisy there. None.
    Maybe you just do not know what hypocrisy means, you surely haven't pointed to any.
    You do not have to be a party of a treaty to speak to others noncompliance. Especially when said noncompliance has the potential to affect them.
    Saying so is ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    if israel is seeking to reign in nuclear proliferation it should sign the NPT
    and comply with its terms
    until then, its views should carry NO weight on the matter
    Wrong.
    Again.
    Bs. They don't just have a right, but it can be said it is a duty to speak out against a known hostile nation obtaining nukes.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and if it truly wants to deny iran nuclear arms, it should abandon its own nuclear arms
    What an absurd suggestion.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then, iran would have no more justification to attain nuclear parity
    Wrong. Pointing to Israel is not justification.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    israel is an international hypocrite on this issue
    Wrong.
    You clearly do not know what the word means.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    re: Should Israel be required to sign the NPT? [W:348]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I do not think you understand the concept of an ally. Allies do not see eye to eye on every matter. Not even on every matter of great importance to one or the other. As a matter of fact, allies can be allies on a very narrow but overridingly important objective. Think FDR and Uncle Joe. I cannot really imagine any important country that does not spy on its most friendly neighbors to an extent. Or do you want to tell me that France does not spy on EU institutions and German activities? That would be irresponsible.
    Allies are equals. Europe has never been treated as equals and when they forced the issue, then the US called countries like France and Germany as disloyal and all that bull****. Just look at when the UK pulled out of Iraq, how the attitude towards the UK suddenly changed overnight. They went from being key competent allies to being incompetent baffons.. classy.

    As I stated.. trust has to be earned and gained. It can also easily be lost. The "special relationship" with the UK is only as special as long as the UK is in the EU.. that has been US policy since Reagan when Thatcher threatened to leave.. it is no different today. Is that a real ally or a bully in a so called complicated marriage?

    So I ask again, why trust Israel or the US with nukes more than other countries? Should there not be equal standards on the subject?
    PeteEU

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