• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

1985 vs 2015

Was America better off in 1985, or are we better off today in 2015?

  • 1985 was better overall

    Votes: 25 50.0%
  • 2015 is better overall

    Votes: 25 50.0%

  • Total voters
    50
By giving up on trying to teach the kids outside 7-11, that is akin to holding them back.

No it's not. School isn't for everyone. Those kids could leave the 7-11, walk to the school, walk to class, and actually sit down and learn something if they CHOSE to.

Nobody is holding that kid back. He CHOOSES to slack off. Society owes him nothing.
 
The great thing about private school is that you get to choose your school.

As with anything private, competition makes it better.

Can you point to any place in the world that privatizing school has resulted in a better educated society?
 
Nostalgia used to be way better in 1985.
 
They offer scholarships to the brightest kids from poor backgrounds. What else do you expect them to do?

So they take the tuition paid by rich students, and redistribute that to poor students?

Why would they do that? To meet quotas?
 
Neither of those wars were going on in 1985.

Right, I was just correcting the record though. As to 1985 vs 2015, I work in IT so I definitely would rather be around today career wise. I was 9 in 1985 so I remember it. It wasn't bad back then but by a lot of measures we have it better now. Look at a Penny's or Sear's catalog from back then, most consumer items - particularly many clothes and all electronics - are cheaper today than then. The violent crime rate and murder rate is easily half today what it was then. Cities were much, much more violent places in 1985 than they are now. In many ways due to technology, better designed communities, and lower crime rates we are better off today than in 1985. I would suspect we will be able to say the same thing in another 30 years as well.
 
People choose crime. Crime doesn't choose them.

Poor children have plenty of opportunity to study hard and get a college scholarship. It's easier for a black kid from the inner city with a 4.0 GPA who has worked hard to get in to Harvard than it is for a Jewish kid from Boca Raton with a 4.0 to do the same.

We already cater to the "disadvantaged." They just don't take advantage of it. Sorry, but more handouts are not the answer.

Inner city crime has nothing to do with educational opportunities. It has to do with making poor personal choices, and bad family life.

Things such as job opportunities and good educational opportunities are ways out of poverty. Just because the person lived in a poor family structure doesn't mean they are destined to chose a life of crime. Opportunity is the answer.
 
You will never pull everyone up to the same level without also pulling people down.

No one said anything about everyone being on the "same level", just about pulling up people.
 
Things such as job opportunities and good educational opportunities are ways out of poverty. Just because the person lived in a poor family structure doesn't mean they are destined to chose a life of crime. Opportunity is the answer.

Opportunity is the answer-and yet you would deny parents from choosing better performing schools. Wheres the opportunity there?
 
Things such as job opportunities and good educational opportunities are ways out of poverty. Just because the person lived in a poor family structure doesn't mean they are destined to chose a life of crime. Opportunity is the answer.

Right, and what I'm saying is that PLENTY of opportunity already exists for disadvantaged youths. You ever hear the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?"

That rings true here.

The opportunities exist. Some kids just choose not to take advantage of them. They choose not to graduate from high school. They choose to sell drugs or rob a liquor store. They end up in jail because of their choices.... not because of anything society has done.

I'm not interested in holding back the kids that actually WANT to study and WANT to work hard so that we can cater to these kids who don't have that ambition.

It's not fair to them.
 
No it's not. School isn't for everyone. Those kids could leave the 7-11, walk to the school, walk to class, and actually sit down and learn something if they CHOSE to.

Nobody is holding that kid back. He CHOOSES to slack off. Society owes him nothing.

The kid owes no motivation to a society that does not try to lead by example. That kids failings will become a shackle and weight that holds the rest of us back.
 
No one said anything about everyone being on the "same level", just about pulling up people.

Then you aren't really going to change much. You might have more going to school, but everyone will end up in the same place.
 
No one said anything about everyone being on the "same level", just about pulling up people.

If my smart kid is in a class with your stupid kid, and the teacher has to slow down the curriculum to cater to your dumb kid, then your kid is dragging mine down.

That's kinda what's going on, on a much grander scale.
 
So productivity is bad? Liberals kill me, lol.

I'm not a liberal, so don't accuse me of murdering you, although I suspect a few might like to.

No, productivity isn't bad, but under our current system, increasing productivity does little to increase the compensation of those who are below the 90th or 95th income percentile or so. It's been like this since the mid 1970s or so. Certainly reducing the number of jobs won't help this situation any, without something else changing in our economy.
 
The kid owes no motivation to a society that does not try to lead by example. That kids failings will become a shackle and weight that holds the rest of us back.

Those same kids are failing now.
 
Right, and what I'm saying is that PLENTY of opportunity already exists for disadvantaged youths. You ever hear the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?"

That rings true here.

The opportunities exist. Some kids just choose not to take advantage of them. They choose not to graduate from high school. They choose to sell drugs or rob a liquor store. They end up in jail because of their choices.... not because of anything society has done.

I'm not interested in holding back the kids that actually WANT to study and WANT to work hard so that we can cater to these kids who don't have that ambition.

It's not fair to them.

The key is trying to keep them in school, and schools given the proper resources to help high risks students. The latter is practically non existent.
 
The kid owes no motivation to a society that does not try to lead by example. That kids failings will become a shackle and weight that holds the rest of us back.

You can feel sorry for the thugs of society all you want, but the fact is that they are where they are because of the choices they made. Jail is exactly where criminals belong.

Now I do agree with you about one thing.... these people do hold the rest of society back when they are in jail. Which is why I am in favor of expanding the prison labor program.

Folks who didn't graduate high school, who chose a life of crime.... they may not be suited to school, but at least they can be useful picking up trash along the highway or making license plates, so forth.

Besides, the inexpensive labor is good for the economy.
 
The key is trying to keep them in school, and schools given the proper resources to help high risks students. The latter is practically non existent.

School isn't for everyone. Some people are more suited for physical labor, rather than thinking-type jobs. Somebody has to work at McDonalds. These are your people.
 
Back
Top Bottom