View Poll Results: Was America better off in 1985, or are we better off today in 2015?

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  • 1985 was better overall

    31 14.09%
  • 2015 is better overall

    189 85.91%
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Thread: 1985 vs 2015

  1. #221
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You can't make outcome equal, but the government has a role in making sure people are treated fairly. Otherwise, what is the purpose of government?
    And when that "fairness" means holding back some like the achievers?
    Frankly we probably would do better elevating them, while we babysit the rest.
    Theres nowhere to go but up as is.

  2. #222
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    And when that "fairness" means holding back some like the achievers?
    What is fair about that? Unless achievers are in reality cheaters. That is not good.

  3. #223
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Perhaps. In my state, we used to offer a very good selection of trade schools. Currently, most have closed down. We have maybe one option per five towns with limited space and they are highly competitive often leaving those who need the trades the most with no place to go but a college track at the local high school. Some will drop out because that track is not attainable. Those are the high risk kids. Those are often the ones that will get themselves into trouble without any other viable options.
    What's funny is that my state is considered near the bottom of the barrel in education, and yours is at the top.

    Maybe the reason why we have a bad education system in SC is because we put so many resources into vocational training. I'm not super big on vocational training, as most "vo" students never get a job in the field they train in. Who really wants an 18 year old fixing their car, or working on their plumbing? Most vo students end up getting a minimum wage job, and few of them are qualified to attend college because they spent half their high school time learning about cosmetology or small engine repair.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  4. #224
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So when kids turn 5, do we aptitude test them and pretend like the results will accurately reflect their abilities at age 18?

    Or do we assign kids to schools based upon family income or class stature?

    Do you think that there are groups of children who we shouldn't even bother to try to teach? And if so, at what age to we cull them out of the education system and send them to work camps?
    I think it's easier to subject them to appropriate chemicals while being decanted to ensure they function at caste level expectations.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  5. #225
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I think a one size fits all solution is both short sighted and ineffective. I think when you're educating children you have to understand how they learn, and keep in mind that some kids are just never going to be good at certain things. I think motivating children involves encouraging them in those things they love. I think spending time teaching them what they love is a far better approach than setting a curriculum and forcing down their throats those things they detest and aren't good at.
    I totally agree.

    So exactly what are we debating?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #226
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I agree, plus people continue to change well after they are 18. Poor students become serious and get better, some do their own thing that school would never have prepared them for either. The problem is in trying to make outcomes equal as a measure of some amorphous "fairness".
    No one has suggested equal outcomes, only equal opportunities.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #227
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What's funny is that my state is considered near the bottom of the barrel in education, and yours is at the top.

    Maybe the reason why we have a bad education system in SC is because we put so many resources into vocational training. I'm not super big on vocational training, as most "vo" students never get a job in the field they train in. Who really wants an 18 year old fixing their car, or working on their plumbing? Most vo students end up getting a minimum wage job, and few of them are qualified to attend college because they spent half their high school time learning about cosmetology or small engine repair.
    Perhaps they get them interested in things that expand on their already established interests.

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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What is fair about that? Unless achievers are in reality cheaters. That is not good.
    That would be another liberal myth-you must find some explanation why things to meet your preconceptions-and so cheating is namedropped.

    I was a good student, and better in college-and I did not cheat. Things couldn't be equal if you tried.

    And something to consider-there has been documented cheating by teachers to raise scores for underperforming schools.

  9. #229
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What's funny is that my state is considered near the bottom of the barrel in education, and yours is at the top.

    Maybe the reason why we have a bad education system in SC is because we put so many resources into vocational training. I'm not super big on vocational training, as most "vo" students never get a job in the field they train in. Who really wants an 18 year old fixing their car, or working on their plumbing? Most vo students end up getting a minimum wage job, and few of them are qualified to attend college because they spent half their high school time learning about cosmetology or small engine repair.
    Even if thats the case, isn't an education that prepares them earlier to deal with the realities of a vocational career the better choice?

  10. #230
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    No contest... 1985 was far better than today.

    Amerika circa 2015 is a cesspool of nonthinking morons who can't open a car door with a key. Technology is great, but Amerikans are far more ignorant, belligerent, superficial, phony, and rude compared to Americans 30 years ago.

    At least you could have a normal conversation with an American 30 years ago... we had a fairly common heritage and culture, patriotism was much stronger, there was a much more grounded sense of morality and right vs wrong.

    What we are witnessing today is a nation that is in the final stages of collapse - to be sure the cracks were evident in 1985, and even then I knew our nation's days were numbered, but at least at that time I had hope that freedom would endure for my lifetime - I no longer hold that hope. We have simply deteriorated too far, and I have enough years left to live that, barring an unnatural death, I will live to see my country collapse into chaos and tyranny.

    No, 1985 vs 2015 is no contest... 1985 was a much better time to be alive.

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