View Poll Results: Was America better off in 1985, or are we better off today in 2015?

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  • 1985 was better overall

    31 14.09%
  • 2015 is better overall

    189 85.91%
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Thread: 1985 vs 2015

  1. #201
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    The propaganda being passed around is that people have freedom to choose without exposing the fact many of these schools either get to freely chose who will come through their doors or the schools that drop students that don't meet the bar. That is called school's choosing and that also further creates social stratification.
    And again, why is that a bad thing? Does Harvard stratify when it only admits the crème of the crop from the high school ranks? Would you rather we not have schools like Harvard?

  2. #202
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    The propaganda being passed around is that people have freedom to choose without exposing the fact many of these schools either get to freely chose who will come through their doors or the schools that drop students that don't meet the bar. That is called school's choosing and that also further creates social stratification.
    Stratification based on capabilities and achievement is reality. Who knows best how their kids learn, you or the parents?

  3. #203
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm all for school choice, but not so much for that choice being made by affordability.

    In my state, we pretty much have school choice. You can chose for your children to go to the public school assigned to them, or you can chose for them to attend any other public school, as long as you fill out a waver form and provide transportation, or you can chose for your kids to go to private school.

    A friend of mine has three kids, one was apparently "too smart" for the public school and went to a private school, the other two went to private schools. The oldest, one of the two who attended public school, got a full ride scholarship to a prestigious private college, I never kept up with the other two kids.
    Thats nice, but thats one state. Here teachers unions are one of the strongest special interest groups and actively oppose school choice, voucher programs, etc despite higher test scores and higher satisfaction.

    Competition is a good thing. Too bad so many oppose it.

  4. #204
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    And again, why is that a bad thing? Does Harvard stratify when it only admits the crème of the crop from the high school ranks? Would you rather we not have schools like Harvard?
    What does Harvard have to do with the price of tea in China? Are you trying to suggest we run secondary education like we run private colleges?

  5. #205
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I don't disagree we need other options available for people. Trade schools where kids learn a trade or skill use to be a viable option. We seem to offer less of that now and try to prepackaged everyone into this college track which is unrealistic.
    I keep seeing people claiming that, but I suspect that may be regional.

    In my state, every high school is either "comprehensive" (meaning that it has a vocational trade school on site), or it buses kids to a vocational school. The decision of whether to go to "the vo" is entirely made by the students.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #206
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Stratification based on capabilities and achievement is reality. Who knows best how their kids learn, you or the parents?
    So, you think further stratifying our schools is a good thing? Noted

  7. #207
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Which is a great argument for why throwing money at the lower/mid tier students is a waste, and why that money should be allocated to the best and brightest.... the ones who will go on to create new things, start their own businesses, come up with scientific advances, and generally grow the economy.
    At what age to we determine the fate of our children, and to fasttrack the winners and to dismiss losers from school? I guess if we could do it early, then we could save a bunch of money on education. Is age 5 agreeable?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #208
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I keep seeing people claiming that, but I suspect that may be regional.

    In my state, every high school is either "comprehensive" (meaning that it has a vocational trade school on site), or it buses kids to a vocational school. The decision of whether to go to "the vo" is entirely made by the students.
    Perhaps. In my state, we used to offer a very good selection of trade schools. Currently, most have closed down. We have maybe one option per five towns with limited space and they are highly competitive often leaving those who need the trades the most with no place to go but a college track at the local high school. Some will drop out because that track is not attainable. Those are the high risk kids. Those are often the ones that will get themselves into trouble without any other viable options.

  9. #209
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    So, you think further stratifying our schools is a good thing? Noted
    I think keeping reality from people doesn't help them. In medicine I learned this very quickly.


  10. #210
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    Re: 1985 vs 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think keeping reality from people doesn't help them. In medicine I learned this very quickly.

    I see you're not interested in a real discussion. Noted

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