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Marines being surrounded in Iraq?

What should President do about Marines surrounded at Al-Asad Air Base?


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this isn't a decision i can make.... it's a decision for the local commander to make based on his knowledge of the tactical situation.

my best guess is that it will be business as usual for the Marines there.

Surrender is an idiot poll option, though...
 
320 Marines at the massive al-Asad Air Base are being surrounded by ISIS fighters, ISIS having essentially overrun the neighorboring city of al-Baghdadi and the al-Baghdadi district.

There have numerous suicide runs at the base which also has been hit with mortars.

BREAKING: Reports Claim ISIS Just Captured al-Asad Air Base Where 300 U.S. Marines Could Be Trapped (UPDATED) | LibertyNEWS.com

ISIS Fighters Reportedly Seize Parts Of Iraqi Town, Threatening U.S. Marine Base


What should the response of President Obama be?

fully scale air assault with heavy tank backup. that is if we have any resources that can mobilize quickly enough.
there is no way that these guys should stay trapped or be killed.
 
320 Marines at the massive al-Asad Air Base are being surrounded by ISIS fighters, ISIS having essentially overrun the neighorboring city of al-Baghdadi and the al-Baghdadi district.

There have numerous suicide runs at the base which also has been hit with mortars.

BREAKING: Reports Claim ISIS Just Captured al-Asad Air Base Where 300 U.S. Marines Could Be Trapped (UPDATED) | LibertyNEWS.com

ISIS Fighters Reportedly Seize Parts Of Iraqi Town, Threatening U.S. Marine Base


What should the response of President Obama be?

Fly to Hawaii for a round of golf?
 
Hussein needed to go and the real error was not taking him out in the 1st Gulf War, then leaving what remained of the Iraqi military intact and turning the government over to whoever was in charge of the Iraqi military. Hussein was too much an invasion war monger to leave in power. But Gulf War 1 and even moreso #2 was STUPIDLY concluded. The other "strong man" thug dictators? Yes, they should have been left alone. Obama removed 2 of them and has crippled the 3rd (Assad) as his personal support of revolutionaries in my opinion.

I truly believe Obama sees his spiritual and ethical task to do what he can as President to support the formation of a large radical Islamic super power in the ME, but has to stay within the parameters of APPEARING to be pro-American and to avoid serious impeachment talk.

Ok, two gulf wars poorly executed, and then the failure on Obama's part in removing Mubarak, Gaddafi and crippling Assad. I'll take that as grounds of agreement between you and I and leave it there.
 
Who on earth said surrender to ISIS needs to get their heads examined IMHO, you will be giving US military personnel as hostages to a bunch of morons that beheads hostages. Either airlift them out or send in more troops to protect the troops there and go on the attack and push ISIS back. Whatever you do, never ever hand your troops over to this kind of moronic enemies because you will see them go back in little pieces.
 
Explain how and use citation.
As we are referring to carpet bombing, here ya go.
Crimes of War – Summary of Crimes – International Criminal Court

War crime of destruction and appropriation of property. Destroying or appropriating property protected under one or more of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 under circumstances where the destruction or appropriation is not justified by military necessity, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

B. Serious Violations of the Laws and Customs Applicable in International Armed Conflict

War crime of attacking civilians. Deliberately directing an act, the object of which is a civilian population or individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

War crime of excessive incidental death, injury, or damage. Launching an attack that would cause incidental death or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment that would be of such an extent as to be clearly excessive in relation to the overall military advantage anticipated, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
The point of this provision is to prevent an attacker from treating a whole city that contains not only civilians but also military targets as a single military target. The individual military objectives may still be targeted, with the possibility of collateral damage to civilians, but weapons must be aimed individually. What counts as sufficiently discriminate targeting is an important question of interpretation, in light of the physical constraints of weapons systems and the inability even with “smart” weapons to achieve perfect targeting. For that matter, there is not even a requirement that only smart weapons be used.


Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
Military objectives are limited to “those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.” Although every instance of indiscriminate attack violates the law of armed conflict, it is equally the case where attacking a military target may cause collateral damage to civilians or civilian objects. If the harm to civilians is proportionate to the military advantage expected, the attack, other things being equal, is a legal act of war. If the harm is “excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated,” the attack is prohibited, whether or not indiscriminate. (Concrete means perceivable by the senses; direct means having no intervening factor.)

Nearly every army has at some point carried out what today would be described as an indiscriminate attack. Examples include Germany’s V-II rocket attacks during World War II, the Allied “strategic bombing” and firebombing of Dresden and Hamburg, as well as the U.S. carpet-bombing during the Vietnam War. To curb the practice, Additional Protocol I prohibits an attack “by bombardment which treats as a single military objective a number of military objectives located in a city, town, village, or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects.”
 
As we are referring to carpet bombing, here ya go.
Crimes of War – Summary of Crimes – International Criminal Court

War crime of destruction and appropriation of property. Destroying or appropriating property protected under one or more of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 under circumstances where the destruction or appropriation is not justified by military necessity, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

B. Serious Violations of the Laws and Customs Applicable in International Armed Conflict

War crime of attacking civilians. Deliberately directing an act, the object of which is a civilian population or individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

War crime of excessive incidental death, injury, or damage. Launching an attack that would cause incidental death or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment that would be of such an extent as to be clearly excessive in relation to the overall military advantage anticipated, such conduct taking place in the context of an international armed conflict.

Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
The point of this provision is to prevent an attacker from treating a whole city that contains not only civilians but also military targets as a single military target. The individual military objectives may still be targeted, with the possibility of collateral damage to civilians, but weapons must be aimed individually. What counts as sufficiently discriminate targeting is an important question of interpretation, in light of the physical constraints of weapons systems and the inability even with “smart” weapons to achieve perfect targeting. For that matter, there is not even a requirement that only smart weapons be used.


Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
Military objectives are limited to “those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.” Although every instance of indiscriminate attack violates the law of armed conflict, it is equally the case where attacking a military target may cause collateral damage to civilians or civilian objects. If the harm to civilians is proportionate to the military advantage expected, the attack, other things being equal, is a legal act of war. If the harm is “excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated,” the attack is prohibited, whether or not indiscriminate. (Concrete means perceivable by the senses; direct means having no intervening factor.)

Nearly every army has at some point carried out what today would be described as an indiscriminate attack. Examples include Germany’s V-II rocket attacks during World War II, the Allied “strategic bombing” and firebombing of Dresden and Hamburg, as well as the U.S. carpet-bombing during the Vietnam War. To curb the practice, Additional Protocol I prohibits an attack “by bombardment which treats as a single military objective a number of military objectives located in a city, town, village, or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects.”

Nothing there says that collateral damage is a war crime.
 
Nothing there says that collateral damage is a war crime.
Read it again. Read it when using carpet bombing as I mentioned, open the links.
Lastly, I am not carrying your water.
 
Read it again. Read it when using carpet bombing as I mentioned, open the links.
Lastly, I am not carrying your water.

I read it and your own source specifically states that collateral damage is acceptable.
 
I read it and your own source specifically states that collateral damage is acceptable.

Depends now, doesn't it- It is a yes and no, dependent upon the situation. The reference I used was carpet bombing- show me where that is permitted because it ain't. Note where it mentions Germany during WW2
Or would you prefer to admit it is a War Crime?
Back to you.

Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
Types of Indiscriminate Attack

1. An attack that is not targeted at military objectives. (Damage to civilian property that is actually intended is known as wanton destruction, especially if it is wide-scale.)

2. Use of weapons that are not able to be properly targeted.

3. Use of weapons that have uncontrollable effects.

4. An attack that treats an area with similar concentrations of military and civilian objectives as a single military objective.

5. An attack that may be expected to cause harm to civilians or civilian objectives in excess of the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
 
I actually should have selected "send reinforcements and attack ISIS" but was too quick in my selection.

With such a small force of ISIS fighters against 320 Marines, I would say the Marines are not surrounded but instead have ISIS right where they want them.
 
I actually should have selected "send reinforcements and attack ISIS" but was too quick in my selection.

With such a small force of ISIS fighters against 320 Marines, I would say the Marines are not surrounded but instead have ISIS right where they want them.

The Iraqis are pushing to far and to fast.
No way insurgents should be able to mass around a major base of operations such as this.
 
Depends now, doesn't it- It is a yes and no, dependent upon the situation. The reference I used was carpet bombing- show me where that is permitted because it ain't. Note where it mentions Germany during WW2
Or would you prefer to admit it is a War Crime?
Back to you.

Crimes of War – Indiscriminate Attack
Types of Indiscriminate Attack

1. An attack that is not targeted at military objectives. (Damage to civilian property that is actually intended is known as wanton destruction, especially if it is wide-scale.)

2. Use of weapons that are not able to be properly targeted.

3. Use of weapons that have uncontrollable effects.

4. An attack that treats an area with similar concentrations of military and civilian objectives as a single military objective.

5. An attack that may be expected to cause harm to civilians or civilian objectives in excess of the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

Any attack that tarhets civilians is avwar crime, not just carpet bombing.

However, an attacker isn't required to pass on attacking a target, because of civilians within close proximity. Collateral damage is acceptable, which is why we should be attacking ISIS targets relentlessly and without remorse.
 
One marine, properly supplied, is worth 100 ISIS fighters. I dont envy the enemies position if the Marines are given the option to fight.

Obamas response should be to give the generals free reign to defend their position.

Then it would seem your answer would be no reinforcements are necessary as those 320 Marines equate to 32,000 ISIS fighters.
 
Any attack that tarhets civilians is avwar crime, not just carpet bombing.

However, an attacker isn't required to pass on attacking a target, because of civilians within close proximity. Collateral damage is acceptable, which is why we should be attacking ISIS targets relentlessly and without remorse.
Again it depends upon the target- you know it- I know it- how about we get back to the OP?
 
Again it depends upon the target- you know it- I know it- how about we get back to the OP?

You're the one that brought up war crimes as an excuse not to attack ISIS targets.
 
US
“The base is close to Erbil, the capital of the regional government…The warplanes will do surveillance, but the warplanes which will bomb ISIL targets will not take off from here,”Helgurt Hikmet, spokesperson for the Ministry of Peshmerga (Kurdish self-defense forces) said, as cited by Anadolu Agency.

Turkey’s Hurriyet also reported that the US is preparing documents to get land leasehold for the next 15 years to station US military personnel and warplanes. A number of the US Air Force’s Black Hawk helicopters have already been deployed to Erbil earlier this month, to ensure quick rescue operations to save downed pilots bombing ISIS positions in Northern Iraq. Such operations became a priority after ISIS fighters burnt alive a downed Jordanian pilot.
 
You're the one that brought up war crimes as an excuse not to attack ISIS targets.

No, I was against high civilian causalities when it is not needed.
I asked you about carpet bombing.
And my answers were based upon that.
Read back, it is there.
 
No, I was against high civilian causalities when it is not needed.
I asked you about carpet bombing.
And my answers were based upon that.
Read back, it is there.

Killing the enemy is always necessary.
 
I suspect a heavy dose of vitamin B-52 might do wonders in al-Baghdadi and the open country nearby. Drop leaflets first to warn the innocent to get out of town post haste, and then consider anyone still there to be hostile.

Leaving the security of this base up to Iraqi forces is not very satisfactory. We cannot let even one of our servicemen be captured by these vermin--ever.

What makes you think that the hostiles won't leave also, and what makes you think that the friendlies won't be held inside the town by hostiles?
 
Killing the enemy is always necessary.
Yes I know that.
Do you support carpet bombing of towns/cities that are controlled by ISIL?
 
No, I was against high civilian causalities when it is not needed.
I asked you about carpet bombing.
And my answers were based upon that.
Read back, it is there.

There's a mindset that says that any number of civilian casualties is acceptable if it keeps an American troop out of danger. You hear that attitude expressed wherever something offensive is being considered- "If one teenager's life is saved..." "If one accident is prevented..." "If one terrorist is caught..." "If one child is protected from bullying..." "If one soldier is kept out of harms way...", well, anything is justifiable.
 
There's a mindset that says that any number of civilian casualties is acceptable if it keeps an American troop out of danger. You hear that attitude expressed wherever something offensive is being considered- "If one teenager's life is saved..." "If one accident is prevented..." "If one terrorist is caught..." "If one child is protected from bullying..." "If one soldier is kept out of harms way...", well, anything is justifiable.
Civilians die- sad - but blowing a city apart for a small number of ISIL is wrong.
Many ways of handling it.

And that mindset is wrong. Morally & legally wrong.
 
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