View Poll Results: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

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Thread: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    If we have evidence that the attackers are motivated to attack in the name of Islam, then it is patently foolish not to name that motivtion.

    Also information wants to be free.
    So Christianity is responsible for Fred Phelps?










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  2. #42
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Or your nation is attacked by 19 guys (15 were Saudi Arabians) who were Muslim, funded by Saudi Arabia, which is a Muslim nation and your nation retaliates by attacking Iraq, a Muslim nation that is not Saudi Arabia.
    I agree, that doesn't make sense.

    Just like it is a very fallacious conclusion to assume just because many terrorists are motivated by Islam, that all Muslims are the problem or are even terrorists.

    Yes, this should be obvious, but unfortunately, it isn't for too many people.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I can't quite follow you here. Since when does understanding result in justifying? On the contrary, you *need* to understand before you can *fight* it.

    I mean, you have to know if a certain islamist attack was islamist, or else you'll end up raiding Timothy McVeigh's garage and look in the wrong place for the perpetrators.
    It’s ultimately a question of ethics GG. To what extent are we obliged to try to understand the feelings and motivations of those who wish us and others harm? The terrorists responsible want us to understand the reasons for their insane actions. Their excuses are crazy. You can't understand crazy people. Targeting civilians is just wrong no matter what excuses someone may use to attempt to justify their actions.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Well, no conflict in my mind. I can't speak for how you or anyone else might see them.e]

    Ah, so even you and I can agree on whose a terrorist, I guess.
    Probably, but our government at one time considered Al Qaeda to be the good guys and treated them that way.

    Incidentally, did I ever, in any way, suggest that it was simply because they're Muslim?
    No, but you were thinking it.










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  5. #45
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I agree, that doesn't make sense.

    Just like it is a very fallacious conclusion to assume just because many terrorists are motivated by Islam, that all Muslims are the problem or are even terrorists.

    Yes, this should be obvious, but unfortunately, it isn't for too many people.
    One more time, because I think our European buddies just don't quite get the big picture here:

    "Your assessment is wrong. Islam is a driver for terrorism because it creates a permissive environment for extreme ideology to flourish which leads the insane, mentally weak, or hopelessly socially inept to then become terrorists.

    It's a religion where it's perfectly fine to stone a woman for adultery, talking bad about the prophet is punishable by death (not just for believers, but ANYONE), and where anyone or place that isn't muslim is an enemy. Islam is the enemy, and the natural enemy of western liberal democracy and personal freedom. We import muslims and islam with our lax immigration policies to our own peril.

    This doesn't mean that most muslim people are 'evil' or 'violent', it means that the religion is a malicious cancer to freedom and that makes muslims dangerous."

  6. #46
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    So Christianity is responsible for Fred Phelps?

    Assuming there is such a thing as Christianity in general, I'd say yes. Simply because he acted in the name of Christianity and because non-Christians cannot support him and remain logically coherent.

    Just like no non-Muslim will ever deliberately fight for an islamist cause. That simply doesn't make sense.

    But just like in case of Islam, I'd say in the case of Phelps and Christianity too, choosing the religion in general as a broad identifyer, without differentiating any further, is not helpful at understanding and explaining the problem. You cannot fully understand Phelps' ideology just by reading the Bible. Just like you'd miss important elements of islamist ideology if you just read Quran.
    Last edited by German guy; 02-15-15 at 12:05 AM.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Your assessment is wrong. Islam is a driver for terrorism because it creates a permissive environment for extreme ideology to flourish which leads the insane, mentally weak, or hopelessly socially inept to then become terrorists.

    It's a religion where it's perfectly fine to stone a woman for adultery, talking bad about the prophet is punishable by death (not just for believers, but ANYONE), and where anyone or place that isn't muslim is an enemy. Islam is the enemy, and the natural enemy of western liberal democracy and personal freedom. We import muslims and islam with our lax immigration policies to our own peril.

    This doesn't mean that most muslim people are 'evil' or 'violent', it means that the religion is a malicious cancer to freedom and that makes muslims dangerous.
    Much of the unspeakable violence Islamic jihadists engage in is directly approved by the most orthodox texts in Islam--the Koran itself, and the haddith, the sayings of Mohammed which interpret and fledge it out. The 14th-century Reliance of the Traveller is the authoritative, officially approved statement of what shari'ah calls for in all aspects of life, and it specifically prescribes, for example, stoning to death for homosexuals and most adulterers. It also calls for Muslims to wage jihad against Christians and Jews.

    Many leftists in the U.S. and elsewhere loathe America and Western Civilization about as much as the Muslim jihadists do. So it's not surprising to see some of them constantly carrying water for the jihadists, invariably disguising their efforts as nothing more than protecting innocent Muslims from all those slack-jawed American "Islamophobes" who are out there in flyover country, clinging to their guns and Bibles. These leftists are the jihadists' natural fifth column in the West, just as the communists who were their philosophical forbears were a willing fifth column for international communism in the early years of the Cold War. These disloyal people were more than happy to take up space in America while working against it for Stalin's USSR. Nothing new under the sun.

  8. #48
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    It’s ultimately a question of ethics GG. To what extent are we obliged to try to understand the feelings and motivations of those who wish us and others harm? The terrorists responsible want us to understand the reasons for their insane actions. Their excuses are crazy. You can't understand crazy people. Targeting civilians is just wrong no matter what excuses someone may use to attempt to justify their actions.
    I'm afraid we're going in a circle here ... not sure where the problem is. I totally agree with you their actions are unjustifyable and crazy. And I don't care about their feelings either.

    All I want to know is if I have to shoot a rocket into an islamist camp or into a KKK office to get those who did it. And in order to do so, I have to understand what kind of terrorism that was.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #49
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Probably, but our government at one time considered Al Qaeda to be the good guys and treated them that way.



    No, but you were thinking it.
    No I wasn't and I resent the accusation.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    One more time, because I think our European buddies just don't quite get the big picture here:

    "Your assessment is wrong. Islam is a driver for terrorism because it creates a permissive environment for extreme ideology to flourish which leads the insane, mentally weak, or hopelessly socially inept to then become terrorists.

    It's a religion where it's perfectly fine to stone a woman for adultery, talking bad about the prophet is punishable by death (not just for believers, but ANYONE), and where anyone or place that isn't muslim is an enemy. Islam is the enemy, and the natural enemy of western liberal democracy and personal freedom. We import muslims and islam with our lax immigration policies to our own peril.

    This doesn't mean that most muslim people are 'evil' or 'violent', it means that the religion is a malicious cancer to freedom and that makes muslims dangerous."
    This is a pretty uninformed and generalizing attempt. But don't worry, many Americans are not good at differentiating.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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