View Poll Results: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

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  • Yes (Please explain why)

    18 10.47%
  • No

    114 66.28%
  • Other

    40 23.26%
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Thread: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    This is a pretty uninformed and generalizing opinion. But don't worry, many Americans are not good at differentiating.
    Do you dare to condescend to Americans? I could think of some pretty damned ripe things to say about the country you apparently live in, if I chose to. Any time you want to cross swords with this American on any issue whatever, come ahead, sir.

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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Islam was not really solely responsible for the math and other advancements. It was a merger of Christianity, Islam and Judaism that created the advanced knowledge. It was only when Islam was allowed to be open in its short time in Europe was that it was ever sophisticated truly and even then that was due to the tolerant atmosphere of an alliance with Christians and Jews, not just Islam. Islam in its homelands has never been particularly sophisticated beyond a few ultra powerful elites and their small cadre's. Islam never created a vast, large educated population ever in its homelands. Never. It still has not done this to this day.


    Turkey is a "Wannabe secular Ultra Conservative society" that is only falling deeper into Islamic primordialism.

    Iran is a "Once great society that is now plagued by primordial Islam" and is on the same path as Turkey except worse so.

    Saudi Arabia is the epicenter of "Primordial Islamic Backwards Insanity" and will be smothered in violent Islamic revolutions in the future.

    Lebanon is lost and doomed by primordial Islam.

    Israel's very existence is on a set timer of inevitable unfathomable doom and mass death via being surrounded by Islamic primordialism that will get far worse in the future.

    Iraq as a country (which was always illogical geographically) is crumbling and will cease to exist in 50 years thanks to primordial Islam.

    Pakistan is a "Mass lunatic Society of Islam" and will be an even more horrifically awful Islamic cesspool of chaos in the future than it already is if that's even fathomable.

    Egypt and its oligarchy are fooling themselves. That country is doomed to Islamists and the Generals stalling of that fate is not sustainable long term. The Pyramids will be destroyed by Islamists one day.

    India is going to have civil nuclear war over Islam with Pakistan in the future. Hundreds of millions will die.

    Jordan is merely an oligarchy that "Buys Off" the Islamist clerics. It's a fake country for all intensive purposes.

    Yemen will break up.

    Saudi royals will be butchered by Islamists one day.
    Assuming all that will come to pass, as you clearly do, and I'm not saying it won't, my observation would be that Western nations will be lucky if they survive as well.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  3. #93
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    .
    I would love to see these polls that you so casually cite and fail to show. Here's a couple of my own:

    Many British Muslims Put Islam First - CBS News

    WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

    However, what you find is that Muslims too are just people. And when they're living together with people of a different faith and different values over a longer period of time, many Muslims too are going to adopt some elements of their environment. For example, I know a couple of Muslim women who decided to take off their scarf and have sex before marriage, to the horror of their parents, because that's what they witnessed living here in a Western country and they wanted to do the same as their non-Muslim peers.
    1st: As I just said, if they don't follow Islamic rules, then they are not Muslim. So your acquaintances are not Muslim.

    2nd: I hope that their families don't retaliate against them...sadly a real concern in Muslim families.

    Honor Killing in UK: Muslim Kills His Pregnant Wife, Mother of Three | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

    And even if these Muslims who get influenced by Western way of life are just 20%, or 30%, or 40% -- that's enough to warrant the statement that "Muslims in general are not the problem". Islam maybe is, but Muslims in general aren't.
    Reference the last sentence I wrote in my first post to you. That explains my position.

    There was also an extensive study about the attitudes of Muslims in three dozen different Muslim countries, and it yielded a similar result: The most moderate, most compatible with Western values Muslims lived in Bosnia and Albania (sourrounded by Christian and atheist neighbors for centuries), and in former Soviet republics (apparently, 70 years of anti-religious communism was good for one thing, at least).
    Again, another study cited with no reference. As Obama would say, "JV league". I don't know much about Albanian Muslims, but my gut tells me they are terrified of their Christian neighbors, so perhaps that is why they aren't so outspoken. I also recall that we bombed the crap out of the Christian neighbors of their when they were trying to massacre the muslims. This is what western liberalism does because we operate based on values.

    By backlash, I did not mean organized policies in favor of a more selective and restrictive immigration. As far as I am concerned, when a Muslim immigrant refuses to accept the constitution and its values, kick him out. I mean angry non-Muslim people shooting random Muslims over parking lots, arson attacks on mosques, KKK-like manhunts and discrimination in everyday life. This is has all happened and is still happening, i.e. in Europe.
    I know what you meant because I know your type. That is why I clarified what I meant so you wouldn't jump to conclusions. No one on this thread has mentioned backlash except for you. No one one this thread has suggested anything that would be counter to our values of freedom. All that I suggested is that we need to start curbing the amount of muslims we let in to this system, because their culture is the antithesis of freedom. Those who are currently here are free to do as they please unmolested as any other citizen. People who attack Muslims in our system with violence are just as stupid as any terrorist.

    Creating such an atmosphere of mutual distrust and hatred is exactly Al Qaida's strategy -- has it been in Iraq too, btw: Attack the Europeans so often, until they're reactng in a backlash way. In return, Muslims in Western countries will feel more threatened and recruitment for Al Qaida will be easier among them.
    I would love to see where you read that. It's more likely that Al Qaida is quite happy at our loose immigration laws and the ease with with vast numbers of muslims can settle in Europe.

    Europe's Angry Muslims - Council on Foreign Relations

    Even if half of the Muslims are idiots, it's still a human duty to judge them individually, when we meet them. That's not just basic decency, it's also necessary for a constructive approach of the problem.
    [/QUOTE]

    I'm with you here. Take people one at a time. Absolutely. What I'm speaking of is the cumulative effect of large numbers and their cultural effect and its potential to erode our basic freedoms. I saw a documentary once where a muslim in Brussels was interviewed and offered quite candidly that there were a lot of muslims in Europe and they are "out breading" their European neighbors.

    Ah, here it is: WATCH: Muslims Takeover In Belgium And Europe | Doug Giles | #ClashDaily

    I encourage you to watch the whole thing, but if you want to skip to my comments' relevant part: minute 4:15

  4. #94
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Do you dare to condescend to Americans? I could think of some pretty damned ripe things to say about the country you apparently live in, if I chose to. Any time you want to cross swords with this American on any issue whatever, come ahead, sir.
    This was a reply to SBu who chose to insult Europeans.

    Don't worry, I like Americans.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    This was a reply to SBu who chose to insult Europeans.

    Don't worry, I like Americans.
    I would say it was a rather light hearted insult. Mostly of German background myself, you know.

  6. #96
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    (...)
    No need to spam me with all that crap. We've chewed threw all these lurid British tabloid stories ad nauseum in the Europe forum for ages.

    If you're truly interested, not in just confirming your preconceived opinions, but in actually looking at numbers, you can start here:

    The World

    You'll find that the numbers are bad enough, but pretty much in line what I said above. Unfortunately, there are no numbers on Muslims living in Western countries.

    If you happen to speak German or if you can use an online translation tool, I'd recommend the Bertelsmann Religionsmonitor. Google it.


    Apart from that, I get a very aggressive and hateful vibe from you, and you're mixing arguments which perhaps have merit with a lot of sinister accusations and imputations, and you ignore most of the points I made. You've left serious debate and now appear like some lurid tabloid. That's too much for me now, I'm tired and frankly can't stand this level of debate anymore. Because I think human beings deserve better than this.

    Hope you're reading the numbers I pointed you to.
    Last edited by German guy; 02-15-15 at 03:04 AM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #97
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I voted "yes", but that was assuming that their terrorist acts are connected to their religion. As it perhaps is, in most cases. When someone commits an act of terrorism in the name of an islamist organization, of course his religion matters.

    But assuming there is a case a person who happens to be Muslim participates in a terrorist act with an entirely unrelated agenda -- say, for animal protection, or for communism --, then I don't think his religion matters. It would only result in false conclusions if his religion was emphasized, in that case.
    That is a good distinction. Was their religion and/or religious leaders/ideology within their motives?

  8. #98
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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    No need to spam me with all that crap. We've chewed threw all these lurid British tabloid stories ad nauseum in the Europe forum for ages.

    If you're truly interested, not in just confirming your preconceived opinions, but in actually looking at numbers, you can start here:

    The World

    You'll find that the numbers are bad enough, but pretty much in line what I said above. Unfortunately, there are no numbers on Muslims living in Western countries.

    If you happen to speak German or if you can use an online translation tool, I'd recommend the Bertelsmann Religionsmonitor. Google it.


    Apart from that, I get a very aggressive and hateful vibe from you, and you're mixing arguments which perhaps have merit with a lot of sinister accusations and imputations, and you ignore most of the points I made. You've left serious debate and now appear like some lurid tabloid. That's too much for me now, I'm tired and frankly can't stand this level of debate anymore. Because I think human beings deserve better than this.

    Hope you're reading the numbers I pointed you to.
    I do have a somewhat aggressive debate style so if that offended you I sincerely apologize. It's not intended to offend, but it is intended to bring you to my position through stark contrast.

    If we can continue:

    I haven't seen the European forum thread you have referred to. Do you have a link? Which sources in particular do you take issue with?

    I have read your link, but it seems more concentrated on Shariah Law in Muslim countries than in those in the West. Indeed, whenever it mentions Europe, it says 'Eastern Europe' presumably referring to the Balkans and other pockets of Muslim areas in Eastern Europe.

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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Yes, IMO I think its very important to label these terrorists or any terrorists muslim or other faiths. But, on the other hand I would be nervous labeling terrorists islamic because if there is any culture capable of being radicalized, its the muslim culture, and I think governments are just scared to do this with such large muslim populations in their countries. I say we do it now though... deal with it head on regardless of the fallout, because if we continue to appease this menace too much longer, it will eventually destroy us.
    Caitlyn Strong...

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    Re: Is it important that terrorists be identified as either Muslim or Islamic?

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    That is a childishly obvious failure of logic. Really shameful in fact.
    Really? Your explication of this ridiculous claim should be interesting.
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