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Does Jeb Bush have a Terri Schiavo Problem?

Does Jeb Bush Have a Schiavo Problem?


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I was not aware that Jeb Bush endorsed this! It's still not right, no matter who does it! They are here illegally, which means they broke our immigration laws, Monte! How are they "stuck in immigration limbo" as claimed by Garcia? You did note that he included "and get insurance," didn't you? Nothing has prevented them from working to become citizens prior to this, except their decision not to bother with that detail. This is only pandering from both sides for political reasons to get votes, IMO, not to mention the revenue they hope to gain. :2mad: This Country has always welcomed legal immigrants, and that's good. Why should any of our laws have to be changed to accommodate illegals?

Now there's something that could legitimately hurt him with people who would consider voting for him. Although that was 11 years ago, and I can't remember if illegals were being discussed with the frequency they're discussed today....
 
Oh no, I think you misunderstand my position. I'm not the one that thinks that there stuck in limbo. I'm against giving illegals drivers licenses. But while the the right seems busy blaming it all on the left, the illegals are getting them and both parties are handing them out.

I agree completely. It's fair game to discuss issues when both sides are doing it. This passage in 2004 should be brought up by the left, but not because the right does it too, but because it's a national issue and should be discussed. I hate the "gotcha game" **** that both sides play.
 
That's very compassionate towards her parents. By the way, there are a lot of "creatures" in hospitals and hospices today whose heads are "full of Jello". Do you suggest we just terminate these "creatures" once and for all today?

At this point in time, a large portion of the population has had family member for whom they've had to decide whether to continue treatment and the option of not continuing treatment is considered unexceptional. As a result, I think most people think it should not be decided by a politically ambitious governor and would be turned off by Bush's actions in this matter
 
I agree completely. It's fair game to discuss issues when both sides are doing it. This passage in 2004 should be brought up by the left, but not because the right does it too, but because it's a national issue and should be discussed. I hate the "gotcha game" **** that both sides play.

I hope you don't think I'm playing that game. I made it clear that I oppose this. I'll be waiting to see how many on the right will call Bush out on this.
 
Are you sharing this with me because you want my approval, or because you think this is what's being discussed? The topic of this thread is how this will impact Jeb Bush politically, not how you would react if Terri Schiavo were your daughter.

The two issues are one in the same. Yes it will affect just Bush politically in my eyes, because it was completely wrong for him to get involved in this. And a governor unilaterally involving himself in a personal family issue that's been adjudicated by the court system Great cause for concern
 
You are remembering this differently than me. I remember her being cognizant of nothing, and hadn't been for many years. She was a complete vegetable, and her wishes, according to her husband, were to not be allowed to remain alive in a vegetative state. And I'm not sure what "motivations" you are talking about. The other woman? Terri was in a persistant vegetative state for 3 years when he met this woman. The money? There are arguments on both sides about that.

Greetings, Superfly. :2wave:

I recall seeing her hug her parents when they visited, which meant she recognized them. At what point in her hospital stay this occurred I don't know. Perhaps it was early on in her long ordeal. I read somewhere, though, that if you are subjected to constant thoughts by someone who wished you dead, it can harm you, since your subconscious would pick up on that, and I think that's possible. Who knows?
 
I hope you don't think I'm playing that game. I made it clear that I oppose this. I'll be waiting to see how many on the right will call Bush out on this.

No, I saw what you posted that you were against it. I'm against it too. If I was a resident in FL in 2004, I would have been furious at Bush for that.

Most of the left leaning posters here would say I'm on the right, and I just called it out.
 
No, I saw what you posted that you were against it. I'm against it too. If I was a resident in FL in 2004, I would have been furious at Bush for that.

Most of the left leaning posters here would say I'm on the right, and I just called it out.

Good for you. I suspect there must be some on the left that oppose this but haven't the spine to call it out.
 
Scary..... I thought the point was once you're an Adult you're outside of your parents sphere

And by the way, where were Terry's ever so loving parents when she was starving herself down to nothing which is what caused her cardiac arrest in that whole ordeal in the first place?

I like the way some are pretending the issue was about whether parents or a spouse should decide

I think we all know that if it was the husband who wanted to continue treatment and the parents who wanted to end it, Bush and the righties would have been fine and demanded that the "Big Gubmint" keep their noses out of it.
 
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No, I saw what you posted that you were against it. I'm against it too. If I was a resident in FL in 2004, I would have been furious at Bush for that.

Most of the left leaning posters here would say I'm on the right, and I just called it out.

Btw, unless the right gets together and decides that Bush is their best answer to Clinton or whoever the front runner ends up being on the left, this is the kind of thing that could get him in the primary.
 
Greetings, Superfly. :2wave:

I recall seeing her hug her parents when they visited, which meant she recognized them. At what point in her hospital stay this occurred I don't know. Perhaps it was early on in her long ordeal. I read somewhere, though, that if you are subjected to constant thoughts by someone who wished you dead, it can harm you, since your subconscious would pick up on that, and I think that's possible. Who knows?

You are as bad as those parents, what you saw was nothing of the sort. Terry was blind and unconscious since the "incident"
The autopsy proved that her brain was irreversibly damaged just as all the doctors had told them years before. I can't believe you admire the parent's for dragging that poor women and her husband thru the muck like they did. It is one thing to love your children but refusing to admit they are gone is not a virtue it is a failing.

However, doctors said her reactions were automatic responses and not evidence of thought or consciousness, and Thogmartin’s report went farther.

“The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain,” he said. “This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons.”

Schiavo autopsy shows irreversible damage - US news | NBC News
 
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Btw, unless the right gets together and decides that Bush is their best answer to Clinton or whoever the front runner ends up being on the left, this is the kind of thing that could get him in the primary.

Things are starting to really heat up here in NH. Jeb is still not considered a forerunner here, but then again nobody really knows him here, and his brother didn't win our primary in 2000 (McCain did). NH is a pretty moderate state, definitely socially liberal and right leaning fiscally. Not sure how Jeb will do up here. I want to meet him, but right now if I had to vote, I don't think I'd vote for him. I watch Morning Joe on MSNBC and Scarborough has been talking up Jeb for years, and all that time I just kind of ignored it.

I'm still pouting because Huntsman won't run again in 2016.
 
Things are starting to really heat up here in NH. Jeb is still not considered a forerunner here, but then again nobody really knows him here, and his brother didn't win our primary in 2000 (McCain did). NH is a pretty moderate state, definitely socially liberal and right leaning fiscally. Not sure how Jeb will do up here. I want to meet him, but right now if I had to vote, I don't think I'd vote for him. I watch Morning Joe on MSNBC and Scarborough has been talking up Jeb for years, and all that time I just kind of ignored it.

I'm still pouting because Huntsman won't run again in 2016.

It would seem to me that NH being as you described it, that Bush would be their kind of guy, those on the right that is. Jeb being a little to the left of his brother, it seems.
 
It would seem to me that NH being as you described it, that Bush would be their kind of guy, those on the right that is. Jeb being a little to the left of his brother, it seems.

GW wasn't well received up here. He did win the state in 2000 in the general election, but he lost the primary like I said to McCain. I think Bush lost the 2000 primary by damn near 20 points, too.

The right leaners in this state tend to be social moderate/liberals and fiscal conservatives. George W Bush was none of these things.
 
Things are starting to really heat up here in NH. Jeb is still not considered a forerunner here, but then again nobody really knows him here, and his brother didn't win our primary in 2000 (McCain did). NH is a pretty moderate state, definitely socially liberal and right leaning fiscally. Not sure how Jeb will do up here. I want to meet him, but right now if I had to vote, I don't think I'd vote for him. I watch Morning Joe on MSNBC and Scarborough has been talking up Jeb for years, and all that time I just kind of ignored it.

I'm still pouting because Huntsman won't run again in 2016.

There's a 95% chance that Jeb will be the GOP nominee. So you might as well get used to it. You might not know it but Jeb's stance on illegals is what the party wants and what they want they will get. The GOP leadership is simply being practical, they know it will be impossible to win national elections without the Latino vote. Will this create a big stink with primary voters? Most certainly but that won't change a thing. Jeb has gotten the blessing of the leadership and Rove and they know how to get things done.
 
Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

If I recall, it was her parents who wanted her to be kept alive, because she was somewhat cognizant and aware of things, and I can't say I fault them. Her husband was the one who wanted to pull the plug, and we later learned his motivations! It became a case of family in-fighting which went to court, and Florida decided on the side of keeping her alive. She had not committed a crime - why should the State be put in the position of being the executioner of someone who had done nothing wrong? If I were Jeb Bush, I would have made the same decision! Miracles may not be commonplace, but they do occur!

This is what a mean that there was a campaign of lies against the husband, about her and about her parents - and now people like you recite those as facts, when the are lies.

It was first a guardian ad litum for her who agreed to discontinue the pointless forced preservation of her body. The court decided exactly opposite what you posted.

And you lie on behalf of the parents. They 100% agreed with her husband being in charge and agreed with him on everything UNTIL there was a malpractice court judgment. They demanded he give them part of the judgment and he refused. It was then and only then they opposed life support machines be turned off - this years later.

What the parents wanted, their motive, was clear. There was a $750,000 trust set up Terry Shiavo. They wanted her husband to divorce so he could remarry - and then THEY would inherit them money. Otherwise they wouldn't. It was nearly EIGHT years before they disagreed because now there was money at stake for them. Of course, you left that truth our too.

It is a 100% lie that "she was somewhat cognizant and aware of things." In fact, her brain had nearly completely dissolved away, which not only was confirmed by EIGHT experts, but also then confirmed at her autopsy. The motive of her parents to lie was simple, MONEY.

Anyway, just keep posting what are outright lies diametrically opposite from the truth if that makes you feel good or matches your partisan support of Jeb Bush.

I think it is was absolutely despicable and a total abuse of power that for THIRTEEN YEARS her brain dead body was rotting away as her parents tried to find anyway to make money off her and then to gain favor Jeb Bush concocted massive lies at ever level, defying what the doctors, the guardian ad litum appointed for her and what the courts ruled by which Jeb Bush declared that he, only he and no one else, can ever decide whether or not to discontinue life support on a brain dead person. I can not recall any politician as wrongly and viciously using the sufferings of others for a campaign of grotesque lies for his political agenda.

However, I do understand you would never sign a living will and would want your brainless body kept on machines decades after decade no matter the psychological, emotion, legal and monetary costs to your family members.
 
Speed of the media isn't relevant. There's a reason this is in the news now before the election cycle has even begun. It's the same reason the Lewinsky scandal was in the news before Hillary became a serious candidate. These stories are the politician's own campaign clearing the air.

If you think this story is an attempt to take out Bush then you don't know politics. This story was mos likely brought up by Bush supporters so that when stories like this matter, this story will be old news even in the context of an election; people on both sides just won't care anymore.

You might not think so, but speed of journalism is important and the bombardment of immediate news media is IMHO, things politicians might have gotten away with in the past are now a lot harder to get past due to the internet and the 24/7 news media barrage that happens when a candidate does something wrong.

And remember, I am one of the people who think this is just a bump in the road.
 
Greetings, Superfly. :2wave:

I recall seeing her hug her parents when they visited, which meant she recognized them. At what point in her hospital stay this occurred I don't know. Perhaps it was early on in her long ordeal. I read somewhere, though, that if you are subjected to constant thoughts by someone who wished you dead, it can harm you, since your subconscious would pick up on that, and I think that's possible. Who knows?

She did no such thing.

Now it comes down to some bizarre theory that she was mentally attacked by bad thoughts.

It was her husband, not her parents, who took her around the country seeking any expert with any theory of how to revive her. Her parents didn't care and agreed the husband should be in charge. That ONLY changed when there was a judgment for malpractice and the parents wanted some of that money. Suddenly, they were pushing him to divorce and claiming her body should be kept on life support - at least until he did. Then they would inherit the $750,000 trust set up for her.

Here parents were not loving. They were the worst form of money grubbers using the tragedy to try to put money in their pockets, no other motivation.

Rather than reading reciting of lies by a politician, why not actually research the facts. It's not hard to do.
 
Speed of the media isn't relevant. There's a reason this is in the news now before the election cycle has even begun. It's the same reason the Lewinsky scandal was in the news before Hillary became a serious candidate. These stories are the politician's own campaign clearing the air.

If you think this story is an attempt to take out Bush then you don't know politics. This story was mos likely brought up by Bush supporters so that when stories like this matter, this story will be old news even in the context of an election; people on both sides just won't care anymore.

I agree with that analysis. Voters have the attention span of a 2 year old.
 
You might not think so, but speed of journalism is important and the bombardment of immediate news media is IMHO, things politicians might have gotten away with in the past are now a lot harder to get past due to the internet and the 24/7 news media barrage that happens when a candidate does something wrong.

And remember, I am one of the people who think this is just a bump in the road.
Speed of media just isn't relevant to the facts of the Terry Schiavo case or Jeb Bush. It's as if you blurted out some rant on the color yellow. It has nothing to do with anything.
 
There's a 95% chance that Jeb will be the GOP nominee. So you might as well get used to it. You might not know it but Jeb's stance on illegals is what the party wants and what they want they will get. The GOP leadership is simply being practical, they know it will be impossible to win national elections without the Latino vote. Will this create a big stink with primary voters? Most certainly but that won't change a thing. Jeb has gotten the blessing of the leadership and Rove and they know how to get things done.

The way the election is sizing up on both sides it could be argued that democracy no longer really exists in the USA in any real sense at the presidential level. I am confident a majority of people do not want a Clinton V. Bush election - neither one of them. But the powers that be are dictating that will happen.

There is no circumstance where I would vote for Jeb Bush because he is fundamentally corrupt at the core and his history outside of politics is the basis for that viewpoint. Nor would I want him to have a majority in Congress if he became president.
 
Oh, Yes, this little story is sure to come back and bite his ass.

Don’t trust Jeb Bush with the power of the presidency

I was disappointed by Michael Putney’s Feb. 6 Other Views column about the legacy of Jeb Bush (First round goes to Jeb, Feb. 4). Putney writes that it was “doctrinaire liberals” who opposed Bush’s involvement in the tragic case of Terri Schiavo — my then-wife.

Who is Putney referring to as the “doctrinaire liberals” who were horrified by the former governor’s intervention in my family’s trauma? The Republican Attorney General Charlie Crist, who refused to take up the governor’s crusade? Republican Senate President Jim King, who fought Bush on passage of “Terri’s Law?” Pinellas County Judge George Greer, a Republican and Southern Baptist, who looked at the evidence of my wife’s case before having his rulings tossed aside by a governor who never met her?

Does he mean me, a registered Republican?

The truth about Jeb Bush is that he used my wife for his own personal political gain. You don’t have to be a doctrinaire liberal to be angry about that. In fact many conservatives were also horrified by Bush’s zealous intervention.

Read more here: Don’t trust Jeb Bush with the power of the presidency
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/article9637031.html#storylink=cpy
Given the average American voter's attention span, this won't be an issue.
 
Speed of media just isn't relevant to the facts of the Terry Schiavo case or Jeb Bush. It's as if you blurted out some rant on the color yellow. It has nothing to do with anything.

That was a more general opinion about politics in general, and the new media has been a game changer IMHO.
 
Given the average American voter's attention span, this won't be an issue.

You don't think there will be some TV ads helping the average American voter remember?
 
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