View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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    So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    There are three observations:

    (1) ALL first-world democracies are generally socialized, and have big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation, whereas
    (2) NO first-world nations at all meet the conservative demands of zero socialism, small government, low taxes, and weak (if any) regulation. And
    (3) ALL nations which DO have small governments, low taxes, and weak regulations ARE third-world nations.

    If including socialist programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Head Start, free public schools and the like are (as conservative pundits claim) a sure way to the economic dustbin of history, why is it that America (and the British Commonwealth before us) started down this road eighty years ago (FDR's New Deal) and we've been the most successful nations in human history? Is it just an accident or coincidence? Or does the inclusion of such socialist programs actually contribute to a nation's economic health?
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    There are three observations:

    (1) ALL first-world democracies are generally socialized, and have big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation, whereas
    (2) NO first-world nations at all meet the conservative demands of zero socialism, small government, low taxes, and weak (if any) regulation. And
    (3) ALL nations which DO have small governments, low taxes, and weak regulations ARE third-world nations.

    If including socialist programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Head Start, free public schools and the like are (as conservative pundits claim) a sure way to the economic dustbin of history, why is it that America (and the British Commonwealth before us) started down this road eighty years ago (FDR's New Deal) and we've been the most successful nations in human history? Is it just an accident or coincidence? Or does the inclusion of such socialist programs actually contribute to a nation's economic health?
    Could you identify these first world democracies for us?? I'm struggling to find any first (or second, third, fourth) world nations that are democracies, so I can't really reply without some context as to which nations you're referring to.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Could you identify these first world democracies for us?? I'm struggling to find any first (or second, third, fourth) world nations that are democracies, so I can't really reply without some context as to which nations you're referring to.
    He is misusing Democracy as you knew .


    But the interesting thing here is the stretchy definition of the word "Socialism". A hundred dollars to a nickel says that if someone tried to point to Cuba, the USSR, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. as evidence that socialism is economically destructive, he would insist on the No True Socialism fallacy, defining it as strictly as possible. But here, apparently, Socialism can be interpreted as broadly as possible, even to the bland "a welfare safety net".

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Could you identify these first world democracies for us?? I'm struggling to find any first (or second, third, fourth) world nations that are democracies, so I can't really reply without some context as to which nations you're referring to.
    In other words, you're wanting to quibble over semantics of the word 'democracy'.

    You know very well what I mean, so I will not play your game. You can look up what nations are first-world for yourself. You can see what the non-OPEC first-world nations have in common...and then try to compare the results that you find to what conservative dogma tries to tell you about economics.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He is misusing Democracy as you knew .


    But the interesting thing here is the stretchy definition of the word "Socialism". A hundred dollars to a nickel says that if someone tried to point to Cuba, the USSR, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. as evidence that socialism is economically destructive, he would insist on the No True Socialism fallacy, defining it as strictly as possible. But here, apparently, Socialism can be interpreted as broadly as possible, even to the bland "a welfare safety net".
    But what you're missing is that the nations you listed were in all cases NOT socialist states, but were DICTATORSHIPS...and dictatorship in and of itself is usually bad for an economy. They were all dictatorships that had some socialist programs...but the corruption that always comes with dictatorship is what ruined their economies.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    In other words, you're wanting to quibble over semantics of the word 'democracy'.

    You know very well what I mean, so I will not play your game. You can look up what nations are first-world for yourself. You can see what the non-OPEC first-world nations have in common...and then try to compare the results that you find to what conservative dogma tries to tell you about economics.
    Words matter we're not a democracy. That word has specific meaning.

    Law and argument hinges on semantics, one has to know what you're talking about to effectively discuss it
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    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He is misusing Democracy as you knew .


    But the interesting thing here is the stretchy definition of the word "Socialism". A hundred dollars to a nickel says that if someone tried to point to Cuba, the USSR, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. as evidence that socialism is economically destructive, he would insist on the No True Socialism fallacy, defining it as strictly as possible. But here, apparently, Socialism can be interpreted as broadly as possible, even to the bland "a welfare safety net".
    I'm guessing you've never actually talked to a socialist.
    Either I'm right or you're wrong.

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He is misusing Democracy as you knew .


    But the interesting thing here is the stretchy definition of the word "Socialism". A hundred dollars to a nickel says that if someone tried to point to Cuba, the USSR, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. as evidence that socialism is economically destructive, he would insist on the No True Socialism fallacy, defining it as strictly as possible. But here, apparently, Socialism can be interpreted as broadly as possible, even to the bland "a welfare safety net".
    Difference between a hard socialist state ad a soft one. Kind of like when people point to Scandinavia as a cluster of socialist states and conservTives won't accept that argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Words matter we're not a democracy. That word has specific meaning.

    Law and argument hinges on semantics, one has to know what you're talking about to effectively discuss it
    Just like the other guy, you're wanting to quibble about semantics in order to avoid answering the question...

    ...because you know down deep in your gut that the obvious answer would force you to go against conservative dogma.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    In other words, you're wanting to quibble over semantics of the word 'democracy'.

    You know very well what I mean, so I will not play your game. You can look up what nations are first-world for yourself. You can see what the non-OPEC first-world nations have in common...and then try to compare the results that you find to what conservative dogma tries to tell you about economics.
    As used, both "Democracy" and "Socialist" are grossly incorrect terms and I dislike them being used in such a manner. It allows the user to take a shortcut to being able to defend their position, since it allows the user to re-interpret the terms as they see fit. You set forth some parameters for discussion, but some of the primary ones are poorly used and done so in such a way as to allow you to define them "on the fly" to counter arguments against your point. This isn't semantics, it's wanting clear parameters for discussion. It's wanting all of us to be on the same page, using the same terms to mean the same thing, so that we can have an intelligent discussion, instead of one that gets to get redefined at will.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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