View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #81
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    What a load of nonsense. Without free markets the steam engine would have been useless, for it would not have been put to productive use. Without free markets, there would have been no industrial revolution. The increases in wealth of the 19th century would have been nonexistent. This is a historical fact, and your attempt at rewriting it is petty.
    And you're ignoring the fact that while free markets DO help the spread of technology - I've never argued otherwise - free markets do NOT in and of themselves enable technological or industrial change. All one need do to prove you wrong is to rub your nose in how Nazism - which is among the LEAST free of markets - brought Germany from the people needing a wheelbarrow of cash in order to buy a loaf of bread to what was the second-largest economy (and in some ways the most technologically-advanced nation) on the planet.

    Again, free markets do help a lot...but they are not the be-all and end-all of change for the better.
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  2. #82
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Or we can give some serious consideration to what Williams said. The man has a PhD in economics and is a tenured professor at George Mason University and has been studying and teaching these kinds of concepts for a very long time now. Do you just dismiss his assessment as irrelevant? Or does it merit at least a look at what he said?
    I don't automatically dismiss him, but neither do I take his degree of education as a sign that he's automatically right...just as I don't take the PhD's of (the relatively very few) scientists who deny AGW as proof that they're right.

    All a degree means is that one is a lot more likely to know what one is talking about...but it's certainly no guarantee. See: George W. Bush, who graduated at Yale.
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  3. #83
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How many of the more socialized first world economies are on their asses, or standing by to be on their asses?
    Why don't you go to those nations and ask the immigrants who came to those nations if they'd rather live there, or if they'd rather go back to where they came from? And in case you're wondering, I do know many such immigrants.

    In other words, yeah, the Great Recession hit. A lot of those socialized first-world democracies adopted austerity measures, whereas we took the stimulus route...and we're doing a lot better now than they are.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    You don't have to live somewhere to know the extent to which free markets exist. Your argument is just plain stupid, and you have a faulty definition of free markets. Most African nations have virtually no property rights. Government corruption further undermines free markets there.
    Says the guy who obviously has zero REAL experience in third-world nations.

    Tell you what - why don't you tell us what YOUR definition of a 'free market' is...and when you do so, make sure it's in line with libertarian economic dogma....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    and the founders were dead set against collective laws for our nation- federalist 63
    Which means they'd prefer living in third-world countries today, instead of our modern first-world democracies?

    But fortunately for all the free world of today, the founders were humble enough to know that they couldn't have all the answers for the future, and included ways for Congress to pass laws and regulations that would be necessary as the generations passed by....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Which means they'd prefer living in third-world countries today, instead of our modern first-world democracies?

    But fortunately for all the free world of today, the founders were humble enough to know that they couldn't have all the answers for the future, and included ways for Congress to pass laws and regulations that would be necessary as the generations passed by....
    no... its means the do not want a nation without individual liberty

    democracy is collective, and is about collective rights, not individual rights.

    "democracy is always at war with personal liberty"

    democracy is a vile form of government -james madison

    people are fooled by democracy thinking it is freedom, however it is not, democratic forms of government have many factionious combinations, that BUY and CONTROL a government....WHICH is why the rich and power, special interest groups, lobby government and keep government under their control.

    the founders created a republican form to separate power, and to prevent factious combinations from seizing control......the republican form of government was broken withe 17th amendment and put america on a road to democracy which will destroy itself in time.

    THOSE THAT CALL FOR DEMOCRACY............ THEN WHINE AND COMPLAIN BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, ARE GETTING WHAT THEY ARE CALLING FOR!
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-11-15 at 03:25 PM.

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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And you're ignoring the fact that while free markets DO help the spread of technology - I've never argued otherwise - free markets do NOT in and of themselves enable technological or industrial change. All one need do to prove you wrong is to rub your nose in how Nazism - which is among the LEAST free of markets - brought Germany from the people needing a wheelbarrow of cash in order to buy a loaf of bread to what was the second-largest economy (and in some ways the most technologically-advanced nation) on the planet.

    Again, free markets do help a lot...but they are not the be-all and end-all of change for the better.
    Yes they do, and history proves it. Considering the Nazis lost the war to freer economies, that doesn't strike me as a good example on your part. Nazi Germany did not bring prosperity to the German people.

    In recent years, many African countries are seeing economic freedom increase. And unsurprisingly, this has led to increasing living standards across Africa. They still need far more economic freedom to be on par with most of the developed world, and once that freedom is achieved it will take time for an economy to grow, but the freedom is the first necessary step.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 02-11-15 at 03:33 PM.
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Says the guy who obviously has zero REAL experience in third-world nations.

    Tell you what - why don't you tell us what YOUR definition of a 'free market' is...and when you do so, make sure it's in line with libertarian economic dogma....
    Your argument that because I don't live in a third world nations means that therefore I know nothing about their economies is petty and fallacious, and each type you repeat it you just embarrass yourself.

    As to your question, for free markets to exist there has to be a strong protection of property rights. That is nonexistent in third-world nations. The Freedom Index does a relatively good job at classifying the freedom of economies. I suggest you look into it.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  9. #89
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no... its means the do not want a nation without individual liberty

    democracy is collective, and is about collective rights, not individual rights.

    "democracy is always at war with personal liberty"

    democracy is a vile form of government -james madison

    people are fooled by democracy thinking it is freedom, however it is not, democratic forms of government have many factionious combinations, that BUY and CONTROL a government....WHICH is why the rich and power, special interest groups, lobby government and keep government under their control.

    the founders created a republican form to separate power, and to prevent factious combinations from seizing control......the republican form of government was broken withe 17th amendment and put america on a road to democracy which will destroy itself in time.

    THOSE THAT CALL FOR DEMOCRACY............ THEN WHINE AND COMPLAIN BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, ARE GETTING WHAT THEY ARE CALLING FOR!
    Sooooo...you think, then, that Citizens United was a really bad decision by the Supreme Court?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #90
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Yes they do, and history proves it. Considering the Nazis lost the war to freer economies, that doesn't strike me as a good example on your part. Nazi Germany did not bring prosperity to the German people.

    In recent years, many African countries are seeing economic freedom increase. And unsurprisingly, this has led to increasing living standards across Africa. They still need far more economic freedom to be on par with most of the developed world, and once that freedom is achieved it will take time for an economy to grow, but the freedom is the first necessary step.
    They didn't lose because they took on freer economies. They lost because they took on the Soviet Union. If it hadn't been for the Soviets, we stood zero chance at all of taking back Western Europe.

    Remember, when we invaded Normandy, the Soviets had already pushed the Wehrmacht back into Poland. All our invasion really did was to shorten the war and keep Western Europe from being chained behind the Iron Curtain.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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