View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #31
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Such economies were the best before the implementation of such programs, and remain so only in spite of them not because of them.
    Problem with that bit of rhetoric is the reality of the market, so to speak. The strongest and most capable thrive, and the weakest fall to the wayside. If nations with small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation were inherently better, then we would have seen at least some indication of it over the thousands of years of recorded human history.

    But there is none. None at all.

    So you can choose to believe what you want, or you can choose to believe what history plainly tells us. The choice is yours.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #32
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Of course socialized programs are a feature of modern, democratic nations. As elections made political power ultimately under the control of the people and created the consent of the governed, socialized economics makes economic power under the control of the people and creates consent of economic participants. Political and economic power are and always have been intimately intertwined and the modern idea where we pretend that they aren't is nonsense. Wealth has to be democratic the same as political office in order to create a truly free society. A political aristocracy and an economic aristocracy are the same thing, and we must protect against both to avoid oligarchy and kings.
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  3. #33
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I've said the same thing many times - the 'Goldilocks' solution. Neither too much, nor too little...moderation in everything. But the devil's in the details of finding exactly what that balance is, isn't it?
    it's very difficult to find that balance, and it's nearly impossible to implement it when the majority of the country is at least partially blinded by partisan loyalties. even if the ideal balance were to be presented on a gilded platter, the chances of getting it passed are almost nil.

    nuance is a forgotten art in a pissed off hyperpartisan world.

  4. #34
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    None of your points stand. Those economies that are most economically free tend to be the wealthiest, and those that are least economically free tend to be the poorest.
    Really?

    Have you ever lived in a third-world nation? I have, and let me tell you that they are VERY economically free! It's all about the money. If you can pay for it, you can get it, whatever "it" may be. But if you can't pay for it, too bad. This is true on the street, to the corporate boardroom, to the cop on the street, to the courts of justice. And as far as 'minimum wage' and health care access for the poor go...those are but dreams of the poor in such nations.

    This doesn't mean that one can't live a good life in such "economically-free" nations, but only if one has money. The rest are struggling every single day just to eat.

    Yes, such places are MUCH more 'economically-free' than America. You should go to these places and try it for a while, so that you can learn what 'economically free' really means.
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  5. #35
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Of course socialized programs are a feature of modern, democratic nations. As elections made political power ultimately under the control of the people and created the consent of the governed, socialized economics makes economic power under the control of the people and creates consent of economic participants. Political and economic power are and always have been intimately intertwined and the modern idea where we pretend that they aren't is nonsense. Wealth has to be democratic the same as political office in order to create a truly free society. A political aristocracy and an economic aristocracy are the same thing, and we must protect against both to avoid oligarchy and kings.
    That's pretty much normal, standard, wrong-wing “logic”—the way to protect against an abusive, overpowering government is to make government more overpowering and abusive.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #36
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Problem with that bit of rhetoric is the reality of the market, so to speak. The strongest and most capable thrive, and the weakest fall to the wayside. If nations with small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation were inherently better, then we would have seen at least some indication of it over the thousands of years of recorded human history.

    But there is none. None at all.

    So you can choose to believe what you want, or you can choose to believe what history plainly tells us. The choice is yours.
    I guess you are willfully choosing to ignore history. The largest economic expansion in human history, the Industrial Revolution, was the result of free markets--particularly the free market economy of the United States. Wealth increased across all classes, with the poor wealthier than ever before. Your argument "the weakest fall the the wayside" is just empty, hyperbolic rhetoric.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  7. #37
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really?

    Have you ever lived in a third-world nation? I have, and let me tell you that they are VERY economically free! It's all about the money. If you can pay for it, you can get it, whatever "it" may be. But if you can't pay for it, too bad. This is true on the street, to the corporate boardroom, to the cop on the street, to the courts of justice. And as far as 'minimum wage' and health care access for the poor go...those are but dreams of the poor in such nations.

    This doesn't mean that one can't live a good life in such "economically-free" nations, but only if one has money. The rest are struggling every single day just to eat.

    Yes, such places are MUCH more 'economically-free' than America. You should go to these places and try it for a while, so that you can learn what 'economically free' really means.
    You think most third world nations are economically free? What a joke. You don't even know what economic freedom is if you believe that nonsense. I suggest looking at some actual data, not your own fantasy beliefs. Most African nations are some of the least economically free nations on the planet.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  8. #38
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I guess you are willfully choosing to ignore history. The largest economic expansion in human history, the Industrial Revolution, was the result of free markets--particularly the free market economy of the United States. Wealth increased across all classes, with the poor wealthier than ever before. Your argument "the weakest fall the the wayside" is just empty, hyperbolic rhetoric.
    Yeah, child labor, mine worked dying by the xxx company towns and shopping at the company store. You are being selective.
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  9. #39
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Power corrupts. Giving government more power only leads to a more corrupt and destructive government.
    So explain why it is that all the most successful representative democracies ALL have big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  10. #40
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    How do Luxembourg or Switzerland do as advanced societies?
    Are they not representative democracies?

    And as far as Luxembourg goes, it's not really much more than a city-state...which means that, like other city-states, it has very little rural area to defend, or to which they must provide and maintain infrastructure such as roads, power, water, et cetera...which means that they do not need as much of a tax base with which to support their nation.

    And I suspect you'll find that's why most red states receive more in federal funding than they pay out in taxes, while most blue states pay out more in federal taxes they receive: most red states are rural, and as such require more funding per person for infrastructure when compared to the amount of federal taxes they pay out.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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