View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #141
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You seem to me to be a bit too apt to make assumptions about people with whom you have disagreements.

    I am retired Navy, 100% service disabled (partly due to a major head injury that gives me vertigo often enough that I can't hold down a regular job), but I am still allowed to work if I can do so. I easily qualify for a disabled sticker, but I refuse to get one - I can still walk, dammit. I have never drawn unemployment.

    I have my own small business right now - I'm there right now. It's selling plane tickets, parcel services, and money remittance. I'm not making a profit yet, but I'm helping people get tickets and parcel services at better prices than they generally get elsewhere.

    At home we have a medically-fragile Foster child who's been with us over fifteen years - trach, g-tube, seizure disorders, and more, all from fetal drug syndrome. We had quite a few other medically-fragile Foster children along the way - including (among others) a low-functioning autistic, one with spinal muscular atrophy, and one with fetal alcohol syndrome with pretty much the same conditions as the one we have with us now.

    At home we also care for an elderly woman who was born in Mexico, whose mother married an American soldier who was with US troops hunting down Pancho Villa.

    I make enough on my retirement and disability that my wife and I could leave tomorrow to go overseas and live fairly well...but we have responsibilities here, people who depend on us for support and guidance.

    So...am I still a good-for-nothing lazy bum?
    i did not call you a lazy bum, because until now i knew nothing about your life, however you seem to think our federal government , is a benefactor for the people and it is not, its only here to secure rights.

    you are a vet, fine so am i, i believe in the government taking care of those that have served this nation, but again government is not a free lunch counter, for just anyone who has not created the life they desire.

  2. #142
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yes and i'm not just asking

    All i see is crying from the mega wealthy. They refuse to acknowledge that if they had not been born into wealth, they would almost certainly not have arrived at this position. I therefore see no reason they *shouldn't* be taxed disproportionately

    While plenty of the lower-middle class that work their asses off can't even afford to attend interview opportunities, the wealthy are busy sending their kids to study abroad in australia and internships at i-banks in hong kong. Don't get me started on the mediterranean cruise during spring break either, while others get to work in the cafeteria. All we seek is to balance things out

    Yes, life is uncontrollably unfair at times (4 year olds with cancer and other tragedies) but who is making it so unfair in these comparisons? Most definitely the profiteers
    The majority of the wealthy are not in fact born into it. But even if they were, so what? Someone in their family was successful, and they get to reap the benefits. Nothing wrong with that.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  3. #143
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Well neither claims are facts. However, what his claim has, that yours doesn't, is a list of examples of products that have existed and spread without free markets, evidence that his claim is feasible (if not provable).

    Your claim is completely empty, nevermind a fact.
    He didn't list any such examples.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  4. #144
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i will have you know thats is what Reagan did.....worked to eliminate tax shelters, by the 1986 tax reform act, ...however we are back to square 1 again.


    every time taxs are cut, revenue falls at first by about a year or two, however by year three taxes are back to pre tax cut levels, and then they surpass them, reagan almost doubled treasury revenue with his plan...however congress continued to spend more money.
    Reagan? You mean that old Keynesian?

    There is a supply-side accounting for the walk-back of roughly one-third of the '81 tax cuts. It has to do with the incremental timing of the cuts as well as the structure of the overall code. The Cato Institute's Daniel J. Mitchell says it's "hard to pinpoint" when the Reagan tax cuts actually kicked in:

    The tax burden may have actually increased in 1981, since the parts of the Reagan tax cuts that took effect that year were offset by the impact of bracket creep (the tax code was not indexed to protect against inflation until the mid-1980s). There was a bigger tax rate reduction in 1982, but there was still bracket creep, as well as previously-legislated payroll tax increases (enacted during the Carter years). TEFRA also was enacted in 1982, which largely focused on undoing some of the business tax relief in Reagan's 1981 plan. People have argued whether the repeal of promised tax relief is the same as a tax increase, but that's not terribly important for this analysis. What does matter is that the tax burden did not fall much (if at all) in Reagan's first year and might not have changed too much in 1982.

    In 1983, by contrast, it's fairly safe to say the next stage of tax rate reductions was substantially larger than any concomitant tax increases.
    The problem with this analysis, it seems to me, is that it fails to account for the Reagan tax increases that were enacted after 1983, right up to 1987's Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act. This is to say nothing of the notorious tax hikes that occurred in 1990 under the first President Bush and in 1993 under President Clinton, who had paired his deficit reduction efforts with economic stimulus.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  5. #145
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I am pointing out the actual situation of property rights in the Philippines, and you ignored it because it runs contrary to your ideological bias. You are the definition of a fool.
    Hm. I've got a house there, a few score family members, my oldest son graduated college there and owned a business there, my youngest son graduated high school there, I've lived there myself...but you know more about property rights in the Philippines than I do, even though you've never been there.

    Riiiiiiiiight. To the others who read this, I don't think there's anything more I could possibly say to you than what you've just said about yourself.

    You can have the last word - I won't reply.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #146
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and politicians claim that to justify their pandering to everyone else

    I have no use for the "from each according to their ability" nonsense
    Of course you have no use for it, since you've never been vulnerable to poverty

    Hypothetical and all that, but it's plain to see why you'd feel different had you grown up on food stamps, a "handout" that in reality meant living primarily off ramen noodles, friends living in a duplex with 5 siblings and a single parent who's never around due to working 2 jobs and hell, there was even a local kid whose parents had to beg for donations for a life saving treatment. Seeing an alternative such as forcing, say, supreme asshole ted cruz to pay for medical care for children instead, i will opt for higher taxes every time.

    Why would politicians pander to it? Because it's astonishing the majority would even contemplate putting up with such disparity

  7. #147
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The majority of the wealthy are not in fact born into it. But even if they were, so what? Someone in their family was successful, and they get to reap the benefits. Nothing wrong with that.
    I was just arguing about billionaires with someone, which your article isn't devoted to. Perhaps i should have clarified. While a 'millionaire' may be able to afford more taxes, i'm not any delusion that his wealth alone can fix the roads, bridges, and deplorable schools in this state

    But yes, there is certainly something wrong with inherited wealth, while others struggle to get by

    Notably, the article's definition of "working" but excluding inheritance is kind of a joke. Mitt Romney might fall into that category, but he created this wealth for himself by taking advantage of the connections his family had. To suggest he rose from poverty or something is quite misleading. I mean someone could inherit $995,000 and earn $5000 and by that article's standards, they are a "working millionaire"
    Last edited by chromium; 02-11-15 at 06:54 PM.

  8. #148
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i did not call you a lazy bum, because until now i knew nothing about your life, however you seem to think our federal government , is a benefactor for the people and it is not, its only here to secure rights.

    you are a vet, fine so am i, i believe in the government taking care of those that have served this nation, but again government is not a free lunch counter, for just anyone who has not created the life they desire.
    Do the words "promote the general welfare" ring a bell?

    Government is not meant to be a 'free lunch counter' - but it costs the taxpayer LESS to pay to keep fed and housed those who are down on their luck thanks to getting laid off for whatever reason, than it does to pay for what happens to those who didn't have access to a social safety net and so became homeless and thus part of the criminal element.

    It's like I keep saying - you pay anyway. You either pay more taxes to help those who are down on their luck...or you pay more taxes for what happens when there is no help for those who are down on their luck...but you will pay anyway.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #149
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Reagan? You mean that old Keynesian?
    however you feel about Reagan, he sought to rid government of tax shelters, because again what is the point of having high taxes, but having shelters to lower them, why not get rid of shelters, and just lower the tax, to make the tax code easy/simple.

  10. #150
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Do the words "promote the general welfare" ring a bell?

    Government is not meant to be a 'free lunch counter' - but it costs the taxpayer LESS to pay to keep fed and housed those who are down on their luck thanks to getting laid off for whatever reason, than it does to pay for what happens to those who didn't have access to a social safety net and so became homeless and thus part of the criminal element.

    It's like I keep saying - you pay anyway. You either pay more taxes to help those who are down on their luck...or you pay more taxes for what happens when there is no help for those who are down on their luck...but you will pay anyway.
    the general welfare is for the union as a whole ......not the people.

    please point to a clause in the constitution which grants the congress power to makes laws giving people things.


    “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”― James Madison

    "Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government― James Madison

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