View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #131
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I'm not asking them to pay for 'my desires'. I'm asking them to pay their fair share of the taxes that are necessary to provide and maintain the infrastructure of this nation...especially when the rich ALWAYS use more of our nation's infrastructure per person than the rest of us do. Use more of the infrastructure, pay more in taxes. What the heck is wrong with that?
    First, your assumption that the rich always use more of the infrastructure is bogus and made up. Many of the rich send their kids to private schools for starters. And the rich are less likely to use public transportation.

    Second, even if the rich always use public infrastructure more, the already pay more in taxes anyway. If everyone pays a flat tax of 10%, the rich will be paying more in taxes. Aman making $10k will pay $1k in taxes, and a woman making $1 million will pay $100k in taxes--100 times more than the poorer man.

    You are merely asking the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income to taxes to provide and maintain your desires. You can try to spin it all you want, but that's what you're asking. At least be honest about it.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  2. #132
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    liberalism these days tends to be a quest to justify taking from others and pretending the common good, rather than envy is the motivation

    the top 5% pay more income taxes than the rest of the country. they do more the enough
    of course they pay more. The "bottom 99%" has nothing more to be taken!

    Yet it is clearly still not enough. I can just drive out 10 miles to see the state's infrastructure falling apart and that 50:1 student teacher ratio isn't getting fixed on its own

  3. #133
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    of course they pay more. The "bottom 99%" has nothing more to be taken!

    Yet it is clearly still not enough. I can just drive out 10 miles to see the state's infrastructure falling apart and that 50:1 student teacher ratio isn't getting fixed on its own
    that's bs saying ALL of those in the bottom 99% cannot pay more taxes



  4. #134
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The problem with your claim that the leader doesn't deserve the credit for how well his nation improves would require that leaders have zero impact at all on their nation's well-being - so why even have elections? Why have politicians at all, if they have zero impact on the nation's well-being?

    In other words, your argument is a fail - you really don't understand the dynamics of leadership, of the mechanics of how leadership can steer a nation to prosperity or to ruin.
    Wow, you really have trouble comprehending things like basic logic. Let's review my claim:

    Just because something happens while a particular person is in power doesn't mean that person in power deserves credit or blame.


    You then took that claim, and interpreted it to mean the following:

    "A person in power never deserves credit or blame for anything that happens while they are in power."

    Your interpretation of my argument is totally invalid. The statement that a person in power does not necessarily deserve credit or blame is not the same as the statement that the person in power never deserves credit or blame.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  5. #135
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i will have you know thats is what Reagan did.....worked to eliminate tax shelters, by the 1986 tax reform act, ...however we are back to square 1 again.

    every time taxs are cut, revenue falls at first by about a year or two, however by year three taxes are back to pre tax cut levels, and then they surpass them, reagan almost doubled treasury revenue with his plan...however congress continued to spend more money.
    If you want to talk about Reagan, you need to note he had a large tax cut in 1981 then a series of tax increases through 1987. Plus, tax revenue increases with population growth, economic growth that happens during rising and falling tax rates, and inflation, and inflation was high during some of the Reagan years. So saying that revenue recovers after tax rate cuts isn't saying much - the question is whether revenues are higher or lower than they'd been without the tax rate cuts. Bottom line is when tax rates are raised, tax revenues rise faster than when tax rates are cut.

    Basically, to have sustainably low rates, government must have sustainably low spending. We can't cut tax rates to fund expanding government.

  6. #136
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you seemed to me more concerned about what you can receive , then your own liberty and making your own way in the world.
    You seem to me to be a bit too apt to make assumptions about people with whom you have disagreements.

    I am retired Navy, 100% service disabled (partly due to a major head injury that gives me vertigo often enough that I can't hold down a regular job), but I am still allowed to work if I can do so. I easily qualify for a disabled sticker, but I refuse to get one - I can still walk, dammit. I have never drawn unemployment.

    I have my own small business right now - I'm there right now. It's selling plane tickets, parcel services, and money remittance. I'm not making a profit yet, but I'm helping people get tickets and parcel services at better prices than they generally get elsewhere.

    At home we have a medically-fragile Foster child who's been with us over fifteen years - trach, g-tube, seizure disorders, and more, all from fetal drug syndrome. We had quite a few other medically-fragile Foster children along the way - including (among others) a low-functioning autistic, one with spinal muscular atrophy, and one with fetal alcohol syndrome with pretty much the same conditions as the one we have with us now.

    At home we also care for an elderly woman who was born in Mexico, whose mother married an American soldier who was with US troops hunting down Pancho Villa.

    I make enough on my retirement and disability that my wife and I could leave tomorrow to go overseas and live fairly well...but we have responsibilities here, people who depend on us for support and guidance.

    So...am I still a good-for-nothing lazy bum?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  7. #137
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    You are merely asking the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income to taxes to provide and maintain your desires. You can try to spin it all you want, but that's what you're asking. At least be honest about it.
    Yes and i'm not just asking

    All i see is crying from the mega wealthy. They refuse to acknowledge that if they had not been born into wealth, they would almost certainly not have arrived at this position. I therefore see no reason they *shouldn't* be taxed disproportionately

    While plenty of the lower-middle class that work their asses off can't even afford to attend interview opportunities, the wealthy are busy sending their kids to study abroad in australia and internships at i-banks in hong kong. Don't get me started on the mediterranean cruise during spring break either, while others get to work in the cafeteria. All we seek is to balance things out

    Yes, life is uncontrollably unfair at times (4 year olds with cancer and other tragedies) but who is making it so unfair in these comparisons? Most definitely the profiteers

  8. #138
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's bs saying ALL of those in the bottom 99% cannot pay more taxes
    Of course i'm generalizing. However there is one constant truth in this equation: The top 1% by definition CAN pay more in taxes

    But i understand it's easier to live with for someone born into such privilege, as almost all of the top 1% are, to not have to concede that they didn't earn everything they have

  9. #139
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Ironic that you say that, because the argument I was responding to (that the steam engine would have existed and spread without free markets) is also a hypothetical. I guess hypotheticals are facts when socialists use them, right?
    Well neither claims are facts. However, what his claim has, that yours doesn't, is a list of examples of products that have existed and spread without free markets, evidence that his claim is feasible (if not provable).

    Your claim is completely empty, nevermind a fact.
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

  10. #140
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Of course i'm generalizing. However there is one constant truth in this equation: The top 1% by definition CAN pay more in taxes
    and politicians claim that to justify their pandering to everyone else

    I have no use for the "from each according to their ability" nonsense



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