View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #121
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    even though taxes rates were very high back in the 40's 50s' and people didn't pay those rates......because there were hundreds and hundreds of tax shelters, to reduce the rates.

    rates were lowered to 70% about 1965, and Reagan lowered them further, because he stated its stupid to have hundreds of thousands of pages of tax law......for the purpose of having shelters.

    why have high rates, yet give people tax shelters to reduce those rates, .....why not reduce the tax rates, eliminate the shelters, and cut the tax paper work.
    I'd love to eliminate the tax shelters and cut the tax paperwork - of course I would! But the idea that we will get more tax revenue by lowering the tax rates is, as George H. W. Bush so eloquently (and accurately) stated, "voodoo economics".
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #122
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Applying your reasoning consistently is not a strawman. You said I am wrong about the state of third world economies because you have to live somewhere to know whether or not it has a free economy or not. If that is true, then you would have to have lived in the USSR to know whether or not it had a free economy or not.

    Your argument is so absurd it's laughable.


    I am well aware of the bribery and corruption going on in third world countries. You don't have to live to live there to know what's happening on the street. And that bribery and corruption is one of the major reasons why third world countries are not considered economically free. The one with no clue is you. You don't have to live somewhere to know what is going on there.


    Yes, America has stronger property rights than third world countries in Africa. Only a mindless idiot would argue otherwise. As to your Philippines example, the Philippines scores quite low on measures of property rights.

    For some examples of the horrid property rights in the Phillippines, let's just look at the actual data.



    I also suggest you look into CARP, which is a law regulating land heavily in the Philippines. CARP limits the amount of land people can own, and even sets the value of land (government setting the value of land is not free markets, in case you are wondering). For decades, CARP and similar programs have attempted to forcefully redistribute land in the Philippines.

    Not only have you proved beyond a doubt you are ignorant of history, you don't even have a clue what is going on in the real world today.
    Wow. You go through that whole argument pointing out this law or that law...and you have zero clue as to what it's really like. You don't know, and you can't know.

    Tell you what - why don't you find an immigrant from a third-world nation and try telling him what life is like there. Oh, he might agree with you to your face to make you feel better and to avoid confrontation...but inside he'll be calling you an idiot.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #123
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You seem to think that just because OTHERS can-in your view-afford more taxes, that justifies them paying for your desires
    I'm not asking them to pay for 'my desires'. I'm asking them to pay their fair share of the taxes that are necessary to provide and maintain the infrastructure of this nation...especially when the rich ALWAYS use more of our nation's infrastructure per person than the rest of us do. Use more of the infrastructure, pay more in taxes. What the heck is wrong with that?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #124
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I might not argue with that, though I haven't seen the evidence.
    don't people say our government is bought and paid for?

  5. #125
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    don't people say our government is bought and paid for?
    I'm not sure that's evidence, what people say. But I did say I might not argue with you on it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #126
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I'd love to eliminate the tax shelters and cut the tax paperwork - of course I would! But the idea that we will get more tax revenue by lowering the tax rates is, as George H. W. Bush so eloquently (and accurately) stated, "voodoo economics".
    i will have you know thats is what Reagan did.....worked to eliminate tax shelters, by the 1986 tax reform act, ...however we are back to square 1 again.


    every time taxs are cut, revenue falls at first by about a year or two, however by year three taxes are back to pre tax cut levels, and then they surpass them, reagan almost doubled treasury revenue with his plan...however congress continued to spend more money.
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-11-15 at 06:01 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    There are three observations:

    (1) ALL first-world democracies are generally socialized, and have big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation, whereas
    (2) NO first-world nations at all meet the conservative demands of zero socialism, small government, low taxes, and weak (if any) regulation. And
    (3) ALL nations which DO have small governments, low taxes, and weak regulations ARE third-world nations.

    If including socialist programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Head Start, free public schools and the like are (as conservative pundits claim) a sure way to the economic dustbin of history, why is it that America (and the British Commonwealth before us) started down this road eighty years ago (FDR's New Deal) and we've been the most successful nations in human history? Is it just an accident or coincidence? Or does the inclusion of such socialist programs actually contribute to a nation's economic health?
    The missing vote was:
    "Because it's easier to bribe the populace with gold from the treasury"
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  8. #128
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure that's evidence, what people say. But I did say I might not argue with you on it.

    in the world you have

    monarchy..meaning a ruler...who is surrounded by his own men.

    you have oligarchies,. which is rule by a few.

    democracy which is supposed be rule by the people, however it is not because it degenerates into rule of a few, because faction takes over and rules as the elite.

    a republic is rule by law, not by the will of the people......which their are no true republics in the world anymore......the last one ended in 1913.

  9. #129
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Wow. You go through that whole argument pointing out this law or that law...and you have zero clue as to what it's really like. You don't know, and you can't know.

    Tell you what - why don't you find an immigrant from a third-world nation and try telling him what life is like there. Oh, he might agree with you to your face to make you feel better and to avoid confrontation...but inside he'll be calling you an idiot.
    I am pointing out the actual situation of property rights in the Philippines, and you ignored it because it runs contrary to your ideological bias. You are the definition of a fool.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  10. #130
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Just because something happens while a particular person is in power doesn't mean that person in power deserves credit or blame. Your argument is one big fallacy from the start.

    Second, Hitler's leadership did not cause Germany to prosper. It did, however, result in the death of millions of Jews, disabled people, and gay men and women.
    The problem with your claim that the leader doesn't deserve the credit for how well his nation improves would require that leaders have zero impact at all on their nation's well-being - so why even have elections? Why have politicians at all, if they have zero impact on the nation's well-being?

    In other words, your argument is a fail - you really don't understand the dynamics of leadership, of the mechanics of how leadership can steer a nation to prosperity or to ruin.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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