View Poll Results: Why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

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  • It's just a coincidence, an accident of economics.

    1 0.74%
  • These are just lies fed to us by the liberal media!

    3 2.21%
  • Yes, certain socialized programs DO benefit a democracy's economic health.

    132 97.06%
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Thread: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

  1. #111
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, those millionaires would be driven to the poorhouse, wouldn't they? They'd be standing in soup lines, just like they never did in the 1950's when their tax rate was over twice what it is now.
    You seem to think that just because OTHERS can-in your view-afford more taxes, that justifies them paying for your desires



  2. #112
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Did I refer to the USSR? No? Then please don't include a strawman argument. I'm referring to the third-world nations of today, many of which ARE democracies.
    Applying your reasoning consistently is not a strawman. You said I am wrong about the state of third world economies because you have to live somewhere to know whether or not it has a free economy or not. If that is true, then you would have to have lived in the USSR to know whether or not it had a free economy or not.

    Your argument is so absurd it's laughable.

    And do you know how those policies are enforced, IF they are enforced at all? For instance, drug laws in the Philippines are very strict...but I paid off the judge and my brother-in-law got out of jail. This is business as usual there. The duties on incoming household goods is 100% for new items...but it was a heck of a lot cheaper to pay off the customs agent. Minimum wage there is a bit over $2 a day...but nobody pays attention to it - it's never, ever enforced.

    If someone is employed for more than six months, the company's required to provide health insurance...which is why most low-level workers at major companies are fired at the six month point and then rehired - and much of the time, this happens without the worker even realizing that it has happened. For smaller companies, they don't even worry about it at all.

    That's just it, guy - you've NO CLUE. You CANNOT know what 'economic freedom' a nation has if you haven't been there, because the laws on the books often bear ZERO relation to what's actually happening out on the street.
    I am well aware of the bribery and corruption going on in third world countries. You don't have to live to live there to know what's happening on the street. And that bribery and corruption is one of the major reasons why third world countries are not considered economically free. The one with no clue is you. You don't have to live somewhere to know what is going on there.

    Ah. You really think we have strong property rights in America? Ever hear of "eminent domain"? Or the RICO act? And - my pet peeve - HOA's, which can legally force you out of your home if you don't follow their rules to the letter? All you have to do is to piss off the most influential guy in the HOA and suddenly they start pinging you for not having everything in accordance to what the HOA rules are. And yes, I have pissed off that "most influential guy in the HOA" before, and all of a sudden I had to remove a fence I'd put up to keep my dog safe and secure.

    On the other hand, I can do pretty much what I want, when I want, and how I want with my house in the Philippines.

    But you're going to tell me how our property rights are so strong here? Please.
    Yes, America has stronger property rights than third world countries in Africa. Only a mindless idiot would argue otherwise. As to your Philippines example, the Philippines scores quite low on measures of property rights.

    For some examples of the horrid property rights in the Phillippines, let's just look at the actual data.

    the land information system in the Philippines, including land titling and registration,is poor and inadequate (Llanto and Ballesteros, 2002). Information about ownership, boundaries, location, land uses and land values cannot be provided in a systematic way in many local governments. Thus fraud ocurrs in land titling and conflicts over land ownership can take years to be solved. There are almost 20 agencies involved in land administration with poor coordination among them, inadequate legal framework, and inefficient records management. The cadastral information is also inadequate and the information available is not easily accessible.
    I also suggest you look into CARP, which is a law regulating land heavily in the Philippines. CARP limits the amount of land people can own, and even sets the value of land (government setting the value of land is not free markets, in case you are wondering). For decades, CARP and similar programs have attempted to forcefully redistribute land in the Philippines.

    Not only have you proved beyond a doubt you are ignorant of history, you don't even have a clue what is going on in the real world today.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  3. #113
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    leaving aside your far premature declaration that america is "most successful nation in history," i would say it's the way it is because it's what the majority needed in times of emergency, and they've become too ingrained and enormous to do away with, as well as wildly popular. The insistence that people, banks, and auto companies don't want huge social programs and bailouts is a right wing fantasy.

    True, some are in deep denial about it, as their so called "values" conflict with their dependence on those programs - ex: "get your government hands off my medicare." That is a far fetch, though, from saying they'd vote for any politician who proposed to end medicare or social security

  4. #114
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    highest standards of living?.........ever try to get an apartment in paris, a dark dank 800 sq feet for $1700 dollars a month.

    who drives big fancy cars lives in huge houses in Europe, only the rich, you need to take a moment of time and watch HGTV'S HOUSE HUNTERS INTENTIONAL, and see what the common man lives in.

    ever heard of Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the man who got into trouble in NY over rapes charges, ..he was already slated to be the next president of france before that happened, he's a socialist, yet, he has money and power, and houses around the world.

    i have lived in Europe for several years, its nice and many pretty places to go and see, but never would i think that they are better off then the american people.....because they are not after seeing both sides to compare....but i will say that america is slipping farther back because of our government being more and more controlled, by those with wealth/ power and want government control their way....which is what democratic forms of government DO!

    BBC News - Strauss-Kahn: Only 12 sex parties in three years
    I would never have expected you to say their homes were better off...but the home one lives in does not in and of itself determine one's standard of living. For instance, who's better traveled - us, or them? Who's got better access to healthcare for ALL the people, us, or them? Who has more time off to spend with their families, us, or them? Who's got mandated pregnancy leave and mandatory sick leave, us, or them? Who for the most part doesn't need a car in order to easily get to the places they want to go, us, or them?

    And FYI, my wife and I watch HHI a great deal - because we're looking forward very much to the day we can travel over there and in other places around the world...and we laugh at our fellow Americans on there who have no clue what a bidet is (while remembering the days when I was just as ignorant), or why bars on windows is usually a good thing, or how one doesn't need a hugely spacious domicile in order to live a very comfortable life (and it's the Americans and Australians who seem to most often complain that the residence is too small). What infuriates me on there is when the Americans look down their noses and almost insultingly remark how bad this or that is, because they obviously don't realize that living in a different nation usually requires a completely different attitude towards how people live their lives in general.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  5. #115
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    The US is not a socialized democracy. We have no universal healthcare and no free college education.

  6. #116
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, those millionaires would be driven to the poorhouse, wouldn't they? They'd be standing in soup lines, just like they never did in the 1950's when their tax rate was over twice what it is now.
    even though taxes rates were very high back in the 40's 50s' and people didn't pay those rates......because there were hundreds and hundreds of tax shelters, to reduce the rates.

    rates were lowered to 70% about 1965, and Reagan lowered them further, because he stated its stupid to have hundreds of thousands of pages of tax law......for the purpose of having shelters.

    why have high rates, yet give people tax shelters to reduce those rates, .....why not reduce the tax rates, eliminate the shelters, and cut the tax paper work.

  7. #117
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I would never have expected you to say their homes were better off...but the home one lives in does not in and of itself determine one's standard of living. For instance, who's better traveled - us, or them? Who's got better access to healthcare for ALL the people, us, or them? Who has more time off to spend with their families, us, or them? Who's got mandated pregnancy leave and mandatory sick leave, us, or them? Who for the most part doesn't need a car in order to easily get to the places they want to go, us, or them?

    And FYI, my wife and I watch HHI a great deal - because we're looking forward very much to the day we can travel over there and in other places around the world...and we laugh at our fellow Americans on there who have no clue what a bidet is (while remembering the days when I was just as ignorant), or why bars on windows is usually a good thing, or how one doesn't need a hugely spacious domicile in order to live a very comfortable life (and it's the Americans and Australians who seem to most often complain that the residence is too small). What infuriates me on there is when the Americans look down their noses and almost insultingly remark how bad this or that is, because they obviously don't realize that living in a different nation usually requires a completely different attitude towards how people live their lives in general.
    you seemed to me more concerned about what you can receive , then your own liberty and making your own way in the world.

  8. #118
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You seem to think that just because OTHERS can-in your view-afford more taxes, that justifies them paying for your desires
    Are the massively wealthy ever going to grow up and acknowledge they're in their position due to help, or at the very least acquiescence, from others? The idea of the "self made man" who doesn't have to abide the social contract at all, nor rely on the overall financial system, is pretty laughable.

    The billionaire bridge owner in detroit should absolutely be made to repair I-94. It leads thousands everyday right to his ****ing bridge. Likewise with the city that is crumbling all around it. No one arrives at the title of billionaire without exploitation. THAT is what justifies higher taxes

    If they don't like it, go make billions in zambia. Where the hell else will allow this?

  9. #119
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Are the massively wealthy ever going to grow up and acknowledge they're in their position due to help, or at the very least acquiescence, from others? The idea of the "self made man" who doesn't have to abide the social contract at all, nor rely on the overall financial system, is pretty laughable.

    The billionaire bridge owner in detroit should absolutely be made to repair I-94. It leads thousands everyday right to his ****ing bridge. Likewise with the city that is crumbling all around it. No one arrives at the title of billionaire without exploitation. THAT is what justifies higher taxes

    If they don't like it, go make billions in zambia. Where the hell else will allow this?
    liberalism these days tends to be a quest to justify taking from others and pretending the common good, rather than envy is the motivation

    the top 5% pay more income taxes than the rest of the country. they do more the enough



  10. #120
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    Re: So...why are all first-world democracies, socialized democracies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    of all the governments of the world most are controlled by oligarchies.
    I might not argue with that, though I haven't seen the evidence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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