View Poll Results: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Republic?

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  • Yes, states no longer have any power, pick a name that better describes us

    7 2.94%
  • No, I'm nostalgic and like to maintain the illusion that states have any power

    231 97.06%
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Thread: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Republic?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well look, I just think that just because the courts rule on something, that doesn't make it right.

    Just means I live in a jurocracy, that I live under a law that wasn't democratically decided, but rather decided by some activist judge bending the law to his progressive ends.

    It's garbage. The courts are the main culprit in usurping states rights

    Let the people decide. Let legislatures legislate, and keep decisions local. Like it was done originally

    If rights were decided by popular vote, the US would still have slavery.

    Imo, it's the Constitution/BoR and federal government that protects rights and individual citizens from the abusive power by the states. As I watch my state legislators attempt a land grab that favors unsustainable over development, I'm thankful that we have a federal government (such as it is) that protects the rights of the citizens and the environment for future generations. However, the states can also check the power of the federal Government by passing an amendment to the constitution...or filling the courts with like minded people. But essentially, dividing the power between the states and federal government does seem to create an equilibrium of sorts.

  2. #52
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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Really....you hear all of these wackos running around acting like "States Rights" trump everything else in this country....its like you said they don't want a "United" States of America....they want a "states can do anything they want...but we still want to pretend that we have something that unites us" Country.
    based upon my reading, the original intention was to limit the amount of power granted to the federal government

    local items were to be handled by local legislature......

    the feds were there to provide for the safety of the country, and manage interstate trade

    basically most things were left up to the states.....and it stayed that way for a long long time

    i can remember some states having drinking laws at 18, some at 21......what was wrong with that?

    as we have grown as a nation certain things needed to be changed....but we have created a massive federal government....and the founders never intended the power to get this screwed up
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If rights were decided by popular vote, the US would still have slavery.

    Imo, it's the Constitution/BoR and federal government that protects rights and individual citizens from the abusive power by the states. As I watch my state legislators attempt a land grab that favors unsustainable over development, I'm thankful that we have a federal government (such as it is) that protects the rights of the citizens and the environment for future generations. However, the states can also check the power of the federal Government by passing an amendment to the constitution...or filling the courts with like minded people. But essentially, dividing the power between the states and federal government does seem to create an equilibrium of sorts.
    Awesome. So why have a judge? Why not just have a king? Neither is elected, so what's the difference?

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If rights were decided by popular vote, the US would still have slavery.

    Imo, it's the Constitution/BoR and federal government that protects rights and individual citizens from the abusive power by the states. As I watch my state legislators attempt a land grab that favors unsustainable over development, I'm thankful that we have a federal government (such as it is) that protects the rights of the citizens and the environment for future generations. However, the states can also check the power of the federal Government by passing an amendment to the constitution...or filling the courts with like minded people. But essentially, dividing the power between the states and federal government does seem to create an equilibrium of sorts.

    correct, there is to be a balance of powers, between federal and state.

    but also a balance of power between the people and the states legislators, which is what creates a republican form of government, and prevent democracy from taking hold in america, and faction from buying and controlling government, however the 17th amendment destroyed that balance.

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Awesome. So why have a judge? Why not just have a king? Neither is elected, so what's the difference?

    There are three branches of government and the judiciary is but one. That's a big difference right there. Some judges are elected and some are appointed. A recent study suggests that appointed judges outperform their elected counterparts by a wide margin and tend to be more informed and make less errors. Whereas elected judges tend to become more political and dependent on big donors and often do more harm than good. But the point is, our judicial system has both appointed and elected judges.

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    correct, there is to be a balance of powers, between federal and state.

    but also a balance of power between the people and the states legislators, which is what creates a republican form of government, and prevent democracy from taking hold in america, and faction from buying and controlling government, however the 17th amendment destroyed that balance.
    The fore fathers had democracy, too. In fact, they formed two of the first political parties, the Federalists and the Democratic Republicans before the ink was even dry at the signing. The Democrat Republicans favored state rights and farmers and the Federalist favored a strong federal government and businessmen. The Federalists wrote the Federalist Papers which influenced a good portion of the Constitution, and since they won all the national election up to about 1800, I think it's safe to say that the fore fathers and the citizens of the day favored a strong federal government and that was way before the 17th amendment.

    First Party System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the notion that our country wasn't founded on democracy or a strong central government is rubbish and shows little understanding or knowledge of US history. In short, this country of ours was founded on business, by business and for business. Substitute beer for business and you have the American revolution in a nutshell.

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The fore fathers had democracy, too. In fact, they formed two of the first political parties, the Federalists and the Democratic Republicans before the ink was even dry at the signing. The Democrat Republicans favored state rights and farmers and the Federalist favored a strong federal government and businessmen. The Federalists wrote the Federalist Papers which influenced a good portion of the Constitution, and since they won all the national election up to about 1800, I think it's safe to say that the fore fathers and the citizens of the day favored a strong federal government and that was way before the 17th amendment.

    First Party System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the notion that our country wasn't founded on democracy or a strong central government is rubbish and shows little understanding or knowledge of US history. In short, this country of ours was founded on business, by business and for business. Substitute beer for business and you have the American revolution in a nutshell.
    yes the founders include democracy in the republic, however it is only and single element of the republic, the republic was not a democratic FORM of government.

    Madison wrote part of the federalist papers, he was a federalist in the beginning, however quickly his relationship with Hamilton went south and he and jefferson became friends and created the democratic republicans.

    the founders hate democratic forms of government, because they are very factious, which is why the founders created a republican form of government, and not a democratic form...article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

    a republic of the founders is a mixed government, of monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy rolled into 1.......federalist 40

    the house was created has a democracy, it is a collective body, the senate was created as an aristocracy , which is not a democratic body...the democratic body works in the interest of the people, while the senate works in the interest of the states,.....that way laws can only be passed if the people and the states interest are represented...........not just 1 interest.

    since you choose to use wikipedia......here is mixed government of the founders.

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    Mixed government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    by creating the 17th amendment , it has now turned the aristocracy of the senate into a democracy, and destroyed the balance of powers between the people and the states....moving america closer to democracy, and toward a very factious government of the elite.
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-11-15 at 11:25 PM.

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    yes the founders include democracy in the republic, however it is only and single element of the republic, the republic was not a democratic FORM of government.

    Madison wrote part of the federalist papers, he was a federalist in the beginning, however quickly his relationship with Hamilton went south and he and jefferson became friends and created the democratic republicans.
    It doesn't change the fact that the Constitution was based largely on the Federalist papers. Anti-Federalists complained there weren't any protections for individual rights and so the BoR was created.

    the founders hate democratic forms of government, because they are very factious, which is why the founders created a republican form of government, and not a democratic form...article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

    a republic of the founders is a mixed government, of monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy rolled into 1.......federalist 40

    the house was created has a democracy, it is a collective body, the senate was created as an aristocracy , which is not a democratic body...the democratic body works in the interest of the people, while the senate works in the interest of the states,.....that way laws can only be passed if the people and the states interest are represented...........not just 1 interest.
    The Senate was created as democratic body, too. Not sure why you think it wasn't....unless your analogy is flawed. The Senate represents their respective states and the House represents smaller districts. Both are democratic representative bodies elected by the people...so perhaps a better comparison can be made with the senate of the Roman Republic.....

    "....The Roman Republic was the first government in the western world to have a representative government, despite taking the form of a direct government in the Roman assemblies. The Roman model of governance inspired many political thinkers over the centuries,[3] and today's modern representative democracies imitate more the Roman than the Greek models because it was a state in which supreme power was held by the people and their elected representatives, and which had an elected or nominated leader.[4]....."

    Representative democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    Mixed government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A mixed government is an idea that might have influenced the three branches of government: the one (president), the few (the senate) and the many (house of representatives), but that's where the similarity ends because the senate and the house are considered one branch aka congress and the judiciary is the third branch in our system. We also have a representative democracy to elect the president and congressmen, not a monarchy. The constitution set it up that way.


    by creating the 17th amendment , it has now turned the aristocracy of the senate into a democracy, and destroyed the balance of powers between the people and the states....moving america closer to democracy, and toward a very factious government of the elite.
    I don't know about aristocracy but the Senate has always been a representative democracy.

    Not sure what you mean when you say you prefer less democracy in congress, because Senator Harry Reid (D) hardly ever brought a bill to the floor for a vote, whereas Senator McConnell (R) vowed to do the opposite. So are you trying to say you prefer Democrat control over the Senate to Republican...or something?
    Last edited by Moot; 02-12-15 at 01:10 AM.

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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the u.s. is no longer a true republic, since the 17th amendment.
    some would say the 14th actually



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    Re: Should the United States of America change its name to the American Federal Repub

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Actually, we should channel our inner Star Trek and just call ourselves "The Federation."

    That might be more descriptive.
    Very Logical Admiral Grimm



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