View Poll Results: Is Investigative Reporter Parry's narrative accurate?

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Thread: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

  1. #61
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I think that you have to consider the context of Crimea in terms of it's history, the ethnicity of it's population, and it's strategic significance to Russia. When seen in that context, your characterization of "grab" is somewhat of a distortion, though not entirely inaccurate. As such, although it is bit of a stretch, it is not entirely inconsistent with the notion of the right of self determination. There is a reason why Russia can be effective in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, and not Western Ukraine. That is simply that they have a significant amount of support from the population. When viewed in that light, the precedence is not entirely out of line with international norms like the right of self determination.
    Take Latvia. The Russian proportion of the population is higher there than in most of Eastern Ukraine and in Riga it is higher again.

  2. #62
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Well nobody forced Ukraine to be with EU and USA. Why did they choose to do so if it was not to be free from Russian bulliness?

    On those grounds, if Russia is against NATO expansion, why would it allow the opportunity of Ukraine to go Westwards by bullying its "strategically important ally?"
    Actually, in a very, very un-democratic fashion, the US and the EU supported a very angry and hostile mob of disgruntled Ukrainian citizens who went about burning government buildings and forced the president out of office, firing upon his motorcade as he fled for his life. I suppose you think the US or any Western country would be ok with that scenario in their country. And those pointing a finger at and accusing Russia of "bullying" might look at a dozen years of US/Western bullying in the Middle East just for starters.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #63
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    The problem is simple: Russia has erected an authoritarian regime since 2000 step by step, its elites are driven by an ideology of national independency and ethnic chauvinism, and the Russian people has still not accepted that Russia is no world power anymore since 1991.

    Between Russia ca. 2000-2015 and Germany ca. 1933-1938, there are striking parallels. The Russian elites and government basically feel and believe the exact same thing as the German right in the 1920s and 30s, and their answers are the same -- allegedly, the West is after destroying them, and the ends justify all means to roll back and resist Western influence.

    The fault is not with the West or Ukraine.

    The fault is with Russia, which does not accept Ukraine's sovereignty, and Ukraine's right to choose the partner they want. They decided in favor of the West, and as a result, Russia invaded.

    In Russia's eye, its neighbors have no rights or sovereignty, and violating it is perfectly legitimate as long as it serves Russian interests. So is breaking international law and all kinds of treaties Russia itself had signed post-1990. That's the same thinking the European powers displayed in 19th century power play and in the years leading up to WW1, and it is the same kind of thinking that was driving Nazi Germany.

    This clearly is a Russian aggression, and ONLY a Russian aggression.

    Russia's elites are driven by paranoia, an extreme nationalism and are stuck mentally in the 19th century.
    OMG no, nothing about the relationships between Russia/EU and Russia/US is simple, and the comparisons between nazi Germany and present day Russia are nothing more than exaggerated paranoia.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #64
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Indeed, those restrictive entangling alliances Washington warned about.
    They definitely need to be re-evaluated. It appears that what was once a defense mechanism has become a vehicle for the expansion of western power. As such it may be that the world is not becoming a safer place but a more dangerous one. I understand that point is debatable, but it is indeed a concept worth examining.

  5. #65
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Latvia's Foreign Minister talks of just the scenario I put forth in Post 37...

    Latvia Keeps Careful Eye Trained On Russia
    Talk is less important than facts.

  6. #66
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Take Latvia. The Russian proportion of the population is higher there than in most of Eastern Ukraine and in Riga it is higher again.
    That is interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for pointing that out.

  7. #67
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That is interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for pointing that out.
    It happens not to be true.

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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Actually, in a very, very un-democratic fashion, the US and the EU supported a very angry and hostile mob of disgruntled Ukrainian citizens who went about burning government buildings and forced the president out of office, firing upon his motorcade as he fled for his life. I suppose you think the US or any Western country would be ok with that scenario in their country.
    That President was corrupt and stole Ukrainian tax money that pissed off the majority of Ukrainians. They then went westwards.

    If a majority wants the EU and USA and not Russia than this is pretty democratic indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And those pointing a finger at and accusing Russia of "bullying" might look at a dozen years of US/Western bullying in the Middle East just for starters.
    Seek out the other area in DP named "Middle East" for non European affairs please.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    That President was corrupt and stole Ukrainian tax money that pissed off the majority of Ukrainians. They then went westwards.

    If a majority wants the EU and USA and not Russia than this is pretty democratic indeed.



    Seek out the other area in DP named "Middle East" for non European affairs please.
    Thank you for admitting your tacit support of mob rule and the overthrow of elected officials by means of violence and then characterising it as "democratic". And sorry, but the "Poll" section of DP is not topic specific.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #70
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    That President was corrupt and stole Ukrainian tax money that pissed off the majority of Ukrainians. They then went westwards.

    If a majority wants the EU and USA and not Russia than this is pretty democratic indeed.



    Seek out the other area in DP named "Middle East" for non European affairs please.
    If a majority wants the EU and USA and not Russia than this is pretty democratic indeed.[/
    Only 18% of eligible voters chose Poroshenko et al. Is that your idea of a majority?

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