View Poll Results: Is Investigative Reporter Parry's narrative accurate?

Voters
281. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!

    93 33.10%
  • NO!

    95 33.81%
  • OTHER, please explain.

    93 33.10%
Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 98

Thread: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

  1. #51
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    No problem with that. Except, I believe the USA will independently wish to join with us also.
    Yeah well we're hoping not.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #52
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I would like to remind those whom even consider bowing down to Russian hegemony that it will not be pretty. Speaking of our countries historical experience, events occurring in Crimea, Chechnya and so on, people will be brutally bullied away from their wealth in a classical Slavic medieval way.
    Oh please, you've drank the cool-aid.

    But this account is wrong: the United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. At the same time, the EU’s expansion eastward and the West’s backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...he-wests-fault
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #53
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Nah, the article holds an extreme partisan position:



    Pretty ill premised forecast.



    Ukrainians want to be liberated from Russian bulliness. If it bothered Russians to have NATO on their doorsteps then they should have treated their partners in better fairness.

    Now though Ukraine has made a choice and we are above that stage. Ukraine is European and the EU should back Ukrainians be set free from Russian hegemony and bulliness. The US is welcomed to help Ukraine be liberated just like it helped other European (i.e., not Asian or South American) countries such as former countries of former Yugoslavia.
    And Western medias aren't espousing a partisan position, lol.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #54
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    We are committed to the defense of NATO countries. We need to honor those commitments. If our interests are better served by not honoring those commitments, we need to get out of them ASAP.
    Indeed, those restrictive entangling alliances Washington warned about.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #55
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And Western medias aren't espousing a partisan position, lol.
    Irrelevant to the post made.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  6. #56
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh please, you've drank the cool-aid.

    But this account is wrong: the United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. At the same time, the EU’s expansion eastward and the West’s backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West.

    John J. Mearsheimer | How the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis | Foreign Affairs
    Well nobody forced Ukraine to be with EU and USA. Why did they choose to do so if it was not to be free from Russian bulliness?

    On those grounds, if Russia is against NATO expansion, why would it allow the opportunity of Ukraine to go Westwards by bullying its "strategically important ally?"
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  7. #57
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    The problem is simple: Russia has erected an authoritarian regime since 2000 step by step, its elites are driven by an ideology of national independency and ethnic chauvinism, and the Russian people has still not accepted that Russia is no world power anymore since 1991.

    Between Russia ca. 2000-2015 and Germany ca. 1933-1938, there are striking parallels. The Russian elites and government basically feel and believe the exact same thing as the German right in the 1920s and 30s, and their answers are the same -- allegedly, the West is after destroying them, and the ends justify all means to roll back and resist Western influence.

    The fault is not with the West or Ukraine.

    The fault is with Russia, which does not accept Ukraine's sovereignty, and Ukraine's right to choose the partner they want. They decided in favor of the West, and as a result, Russia invaded.

    In Russia's eye, its neighbors have no rights or sovereignty, and violating it is perfectly legitimate as long as it serves Russian interests. So is breaking international law and all kinds of treaties Russia itself had signed post-1990. That's the same thinking the European powers displayed in 19th century power play and in the years leading up to WW1, and it is the same kind of thinking that was driving Nazi Germany.

    This clearly is a Russian aggression, and ONLY a Russian aggression.

    Russia's elites are driven by paranoia, an extreme nationalism and are stuck mentally in the 19th century.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  8. #58
    Student
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Brussels
    Last Seen
    02-12-15 @ 11:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    154

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Indeed. Latvia for example. A NATO nation. It shares a border with the Russian Federation. Latvia's current population is ~25% ethnic Russian, a vestige from when Latvia was a Soviet SSR. As in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, it would be very easy for Putin to stir up trouble in Latvia and then threaten military action to "protect ethnic Russians, Russian-speakers, and compatriots" if the Latvian government tried to quell such subversion.
    Not so. Unlike Ukraine Latvia is not a failed state.

  9. #59
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Irrelevant to the post made.
    Um yes, if you think that only one side is capable of bias and hyperbole.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #60
    Invictus


    Rogue Valley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,190

    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Not so. Unlike Ukraine Latvia is not a failed state.
    Latvia's Foreign Minister talks of just the scenario I put forth in Post 37...

    Latvia Keeps Careful Eye Trained On Russia


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •