View Poll Results: Is Investigative Reporter Parry's narrative accurate?

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Thread: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

  1. #91
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Come on Buddha. You admit to not knowing much about the CIA's atrocities in Latin America, and then defend them upon the propaganda that you've heard espoused in American media or some patronising poster at DP.

    Here's just one of many examples of US policy that has been brutal on weak people in the world that have no leverage to defend themselves, in order to advance the economic interests of American oligarchs. I really do have faith that you're interested in truth and justice, just reach out and grab it.


    The Guatemalan Revolution of 1944-54 had overthrown the US backed dictator Jorge Ubico and brought a democratically elected government to power. The government began an ambitious agrarian reform program attempting to grant land to millions of landless peasants. This program threatened the land holdings of the United Fruit Company, who lobbied for a coup by portraying these reforms as communist. The CIA engineered the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Jacobo Árbenz, and installed the military dictator Carlos Castillo Armas. A decades long civil war ensued in which some 200,000 people were killed, mostly by the US backed military.[21][22][23][24][25]

    Covert United States foreign regime change actions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So here you have a country in which its citizens were suffering under the oppression of a dictator, a dictator that the US supported! In an attempt at desperation they overthrow the dictator and install for themselves a democracy, and a government that has their interests at heart and will divide land in an equitable fashion so that all its citizens can make a living and thrive. Viewed as a threat to the UFC, a conspiracy is hatched and the US government is lobbied to demonise the peasants as communist sympathiser, and you know how Americans get catatonic when they hear that word. So the CIA was tasked with the job of overthrowing this democratically elected government and another right wing dictator was installed who subsequently beat the citizenry into submission by killing 200,000 of them, which allowed UFC to then continue the exploitation of the Guatemalan peasants.

    STOP, patronising America by thinking everything that's done is good, supports democracy and looks after the little guy or praises self determination. It isn't always so!!!
    I've never said that everything the US has ever done was good. But you would be naive if you didn't think that Cuba and the Soviets weren't looking to inroads into the Latin America. Grenada demonstrated that very clearly when we found Cuban advisers trying to stir up the rebels there. Also, this was prior to the time when the US policy shifted to supporting democracies as well. Think about it, there was a time in the past where US Foreign Policy supported the likes of Mubarak. But despite the fact that he considered the US an Ally, increasingly over time the US started to apply more and more pressure to his regime to the point that we called for his ouster during the Arab Spring.

    Also, I question and articles legitimacy when the very post concerns Russia and our dealings with them after the Revolution I know to be patently misleading. I won't go into great detail here as it doesn't add to our current discussion, but suffice to say it leads me to question the rest of it.

  2. #92
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I've never said that everything the US has ever done was good. But you would be naive if you didn't think that Cuba and the Soviets weren't looking to inroads into the Latin America. Grenada demonstrated that very clearly when we found Cuban advisers trying to stir up the rebels there. Also, this was prior to the time when the US policy shifted to supporting democracies as well. Think about it, there was a time in the past where US Foreign Policy supported the likes of Mubarak. But despite the fact that he considered the US an Ally, increasingly over time the US started to apply more and more pressure to his regime to the point that we called for his ouster during the Arab Spring.

    Also, I question and articles legitimacy when the very post concerns Russia and our dealings with them after the Revolution I know to be patently misleading. I won't go into great detail here as it doesn't add to our current discussion, but suffice to say it leads me to question the rest of it.
    I didn't speak to the issue of Russia and Cuba. But if you can justify dropping nuclear bombs on civilian targets, firebombing civilian targets, overthrowing democratic governments and replacing them with right wing dictators, overthrowing right wing dictators which give rise to terrorism, and the like, then you provide room for anybody to justify anything.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #93
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I didn't speak to the issue of Russia and Cuba. But if you can justify dropping nuclear bombs on civilian targets, firebombing civilian targets, overthrowing democratic governments and replacing them with right wing dictators, overthrowing right wing dictators which give rise to terrorism, and the like, then you provide room for anybody to justify anything.
    Are we really going to bring WW2 into this? You're talking about apples and oranges here. Two different eras entirely.

    In a way, I think we're also talking about different eras as well between the Cold War and now. Look, back in the Cold War, there was a strategic adversary to deal with and that was the Soviet Union. And I guarantee that we wouldn't of had to of been as aggressive with Latin America had Russia not tried to bring Nukes over and set them up 90 miles from Florida. Today, it's all a different ball game though. For example, I doubt we would of been so liberal in our dealings with Iraq the second time around, had there still of been a Soviet Union just a short distance from it's borders. The problem of course, is that Putin hasn't left those Cold War years behind and is where we see the discrepancies.

  4. #94
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Are we really going to bring WW2 into this? You're talking about apples and oranges here. Two different eras entirely.

    In a way, I think we're also talking about different eras as well between the Cold War and now. Look, back in the Cold War, there was a strategic adversary to deal with and that was the Soviet Union. And I guarantee that we wouldn't of had to of been as aggressive with Latin America had Russia not tried to bring Nukes over and set them up 90 miles from Florida. Today, it's all a different ball game though. For example, I doubt we would of been so liberal in our dealings with Iraq the second time around, had there still of been a Soviet Union just a short distance from it's borders. The problem of course, is that Putin hasn't left those Cold War years behind and is where we see the discrepancies.
    My post you quoted didn't just reference WW2, and your response reached back a bit as well.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #95
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    My post you quoted didn't just reference WW2, and your response reached back a bit as well.
    No of course it didn't, but I also addressed those other points as well:

    Look, back in the Cold War, there was a strategic adversary to deal with and that was the Soviet Union. And I guarantee that we wouldn't of had to of been as aggressive with Latin America had Russia not tried to bring Nukes over and set them up 90 miles from Florida. Today, it's all a different ball game though. For example, I doubt we would of been so liberal in our dealings with Iraq the second time around, had there still of been a Soviet Union just a short distance from it's borders. The problem of course, is that Putin hasn't left those Cold War years behind and is where we see the discrepancies.

    I mentioned WW1 though because the article tried to argue that we were interfering with the revolution when we went into Vladivostok and that other Port that I can't recall at this moment. And as much as Khrushchev believed that we were doing as such, (I've seen videos of a speech he gave, I believe before the UN where he was ranting about it, and all the Americans at the time was like "da fuq is he talking about?") In truth we just didn't want the Bolsheviks getting their hands on all the supplies we sent to support Russia's WW1 efforts (there was also troops that were caught there, but that's a long story and immaterial to the current discussion). It was nothing like when Americans were supporting dirty dictators and such. So when I saw that as the first one and knew it was not the case, was why I dismissed the rest of the list. Not because I don't believe any of those situations occur, but at that point I don't believe the source.

  6. #96
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    No of course it didn't, but I also addressed those other points as well:

    Look, back in the Cold War, there was a strategic adversary to deal with and that was the Soviet Union. And I guarantee that we wouldn't of had to of been as aggressive with Latin America had Russia not tried to bring Nukes over and set them up 90 miles from Florida. Today, it's all a different ball game though. For example, I doubt we would of been so liberal in our dealings with Iraq the second time around, had there still of been a Soviet Union just a short distance from it's borders. The problem of course, is that Putin hasn't left those Cold War years behind and is where we see the discrepancies.

    I mentioned WW1 though because the article tried to argue that we were interfering with the revolution when we went into Vladivostok and that other Port that I can't recall at this moment. And as much as Khrushchev believed that we were doing as such, (I've seen videos of a speech he gave, I believe before the UN where he was ranting about it, and all the Americans at the time was like "da fuq is he talking about?") In truth we just didn't want the Bolsheviks getting their hands on all the supplies we sent to support Russia's WW1 efforts (there was also troops that were caught there, but that's a long story and immaterial to the current discussion). It was nothing like when Americans were supporting dirty dictators and such. So when I saw that as the first one and knew it was not the case, was why I dismissed the rest of the list. Not because I don't believe any of those situations occur, but at that point I don't believe the source.
    I'm not going to criticise you for reaching back to WW1. Anything that shows a pattern is fair play.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post

    Why doesn't MSM media investigate Ukraine?


    It does, for example it proved that Russia had illegally invaded the Ukraine while they were still laughably denying that they had invaded the Crimea.

    Are we supporting crooks and Nazis in Ukraine?
    No, over half of the neo-Nazi's in the world reside in the Russian Federation, and far right parties did not make traction in the Ukrainian elections.

    Is it wise to war with your largest trading partner?
    The Ukraine did not war with Russia, Russia warred with the Ukraine3.

    Is investigative reporter Robert Parry's synopsis of events accurate? Poll Question
    No it's absolutely nonsense, the crisis in the Ukraine is the direct result of Russian interventionism from beginning to end, facts are stubborn things, it was Russia that started all of this first with economic warfare in order to prevent the Ukraine's right to self determination which prompted peaceful protests supported by a plurality if not an outright majority of Ukrainians which resulted in a Russian puppet at the direct behest of Putin, sending in his jack booted thugs to attack and murder the protesters which resulted in his impeachment followed by his treasonous self imposed exile to Russian occupied territory, then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which did not allow for the majority of Ukrainians to participate in violation of both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions,

  8. #98
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    Re: Nuclear War and Clashing Ukraine Narratives

    Face,your
    The Ukrainian war of choice to take an army into the Eastern Ukraine and attack coal miners and
    peasants. Kiev attacked and is not defending anything. Kiev's current junta was installed by Right
    Sector Nazis who provided the muscle at Maidan. Azov battalion are also Nazis. Again, a war of
    choice is like GW Bush(the First Torturor) invading Iraq. Could negotiations have worked???? OF
    course they could have. Kiev was trapped by clauses in IMF debt package and was required to have
    a complete country to be eligible for teh Money. MONEY is the key word here. Now IMF doesn't
    even mind if there is a war going on because they got the collaterol guarantee. They have Ukrainians
    by the balls, don't ya' know.

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