View Poll Results: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

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Thread: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I do, because it's moved from merely an existential argument over the nuances and interpretations of texts to being a real and present threat to the West. And we know that movement has widespread support in the ME, otherwise they wouldn't keep electing the radicals and terrorist when they are given the chance to vote.
    I disagree with you in the strongest terms. To see the type of problems that can occur with this one need only consider that it puts the U.S. government in the position of interpreting religious text. Then we can end up with official government interpretation of religious texts. Also consider Christianity. The Bible says that there will be a war in which the non believers will be destroyed. That is part of modern Christian ideology. Based on this, people could claim to be Jesus come again to engage in this war and could start to wage war against the general population and the government. Would the government then step in and demand that this ideological aspect be purged from Christian ideology? Also consider Judaism and the ideology that what constitutes Palestine is meant for the Jews. This ideology is the source of quite a bit of tension in the Middle East and poses quite a few problems for U.S. foreign policy. Should the U.S. therefore demand that Zionism be purged from Jewish ideology? Of course not. But that is the type of road we would be going down if all of a sudden we started to attack religions based on ideology. Indeed freedom of religion would become an empty concept.

  2. #112
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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Religion has NO place in the world, and it will be eradicated!!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #113
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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree with you in the strongest terms. To see the type of problems that can occur with this one need only consider that it puts the U.S. government in the position of interpreting religious text. Then we can end up with official government interpretation of religious texts. Also consider Christianity. The Bible says that there will be a war in which the non believers will be destroyed. That is part of modern Christian ideology. Based on this, people could claim to be Jesus come again to engage in this war and could start to wage war against the general population and the government. Would the government then step in and demand that this ideological aspect be purged from Christian ideology? Also consider Judaism and the ideology that what constitutes Palestine is meant for the Jews. This ideology is the source of quite a bit of tension in the Middle East and poses quite a few problems for U.S. foreign policy. Should the U.S. therefore demand that Zionism be purged from Jewish ideology? Of course not. But that is the type of road we would be going down if all of a sudden we started to attack religions based on ideology. Indeed freedom of religion would become an empty concept.
    First off, I'm just going to assume that your not Christian, nor have you ever stepped foot in a church, because I don't know what hokey place you going to where "modern Christian ideology" dictates non believers will be destroyed. I mean, there are Christians all over the world in places like China and Saudi Arabia that are hostile to the religion, but unlike Islam, they aren't going around blowing stuff up and killing innocent people. And the line about Jesus coming to war is ... you don't know the story of Jesus Christ apparently. Because if you did, you'd know that he had an out as the Son of God to no go through with his execution but he chose to go through with it. And when John cut off one of the soldiers ears in defense of the man he followed, Jesus stopped him and healed the soldier. In the future, it's best you don't talk about Christianity again if you're going to spout that kind of nonsense and make blanket statements. And as far as Judaism is concerned, they aren't a threat to us and thus there is no reason that they should be looked at. If they, as many who follow Islam do, support attacks against us or our allies, that's when there is going to be issues.

    But let's talk in applications terms then. I mean, despite the fact the KKK adorned themselves with the trappings of Christianity, it's not like the Government allowed that to be an excuse to not go in and clean house against that organization (who at that time would of been classified as a terrorist organization. Same with these cults you see pop up on occasion that the government goes in and busts up for creating sex slaves. Bottom line, no one can use religion as a cover to commit acts of terror or otherwise illegal behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Religion has NO place in the world, and it will be eradicated!!!!!!
    Religion does have a place in this world, there's a lot of good that people do who are religious. It's not a coincidence that the most charitable state in the US is also one of the most religious (Utah). But even beyond that, history is long enough now that we've seen a few examples of countries that have outlawed religion and it wasn't exactly like those were the peaceful utopias that you might expect (Soviet Union or China for example).

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    First off, I'm just going to assume that your not Christian, nor have you ever stepped foot in a church, because I don't know what hokey place you going to where "modern Christian ideology" dictates non believers will be destroyed. I mean, there are Christians all over the world in places like China and Saudi Arabia that are hostile to the religion, but unlike Islam, they aren't going around blowing stuff up and killing innocent people. And the line about Jesus coming to war is ... you don't know the story of Jesus Christ apparently. Because if you did, you'd know that he had an out as the Son of God to no go through with his execution but he chose to go through with it. And when John cut off one of the soldiers ears in defense of the man he followed, Jesus stopped him and healed the soldier. In the future, it's best you don't talk about Christianity again if you're going to spout that kind of nonsense and make blanket statements. And as far as Judaism is concerned, they aren't a threat to us and thus there is no reason that they should be looked at. If they, as many who follow Islam do, support attacks against us or our allies, that's when there is going to be issues.

    But let's talk in applications terms then. I mean, despite the fact the KKK adorned themselves with the trappings of Christianity, it's not like the Government allowed that to be an excuse to not go in and clean house against that organization (who at that time would of been classified as a terrorist organization. Same with these cults you see pop up on occasion that the government goes in and busts up for creating sex slaves. Bottom line, no one can use religion as a cover to commit acts of terror or otherwise illegal behavior.
    The government has already assumed too much power in the name of fighting terrorism. We don't need to give it the power to tell people what they can believe.

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The government has already assumed too much power in the name of fighting terrorism. We don't need to give it the power to tell people what they can believe.
    You misunderstand what I'm saying; I'm not advocating that Obama should create a special advisory position, a "Islam Czar" if you will, to dictate what Islam should and shouldn't believe or how it should it implement said beliefs. However, that doesn't mean our government shouldn't be willing to call out the flaws that bring Islam in clash with western society, for instance the treatment of women and what wearing a Hiqab represents. The FBI and DEA doesn't have any problem going after inconsequential Christian sects for their whack job beliefs and poor treatment of women, I don't see why the White House couldn't just condemn Islam for the same thing, and make that condemnation loud and clear.

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You misunderstand what I'm saying; I'm not advocating that Obama should create a special advisory position, a "Islam Czar" if you will, to dictate what Islam should and shouldn't believe or how it should it implement said beliefs. However, that doesn't mean our government shouldn't be willing to call out the flaws that bring Islam in clash with western society, for instance the treatment of women and what wearing a Hiqab represents. The FBI and DEA doesn't have any problem going after inconsequential Christian sects for their whack job beliefs and poor treatment of women, I don't see why the White House couldn't just condemn Islam for the same thing, and make that condemnation loud and clear.
    Your example of Muslim women wearing the Hijab represents the inherent flaws in this type of thinking. What you have donein that instance is imposed your view of what the Hijab represents. That is your belief and there are many Muslim women who do not agree with your view. That's just the type of stuff I am talking about. The government telling people what they should believe. Sorry. The government does not need that type of power.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 02-17-15 at 09:20 AM.

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    God bless our troops! Now, off to fight another pagan religion.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #118
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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Your example of Muslim women wearing the Hijab represents the inherent flaws in this type of thinking. What you have donein that instance is imposed your view of what the Hijab represents. That is your belief and their are many Muslim women who do not agree with your view. That's just the type of stuff I am talking about. The government telling people what they should believe. Sorry. The government does not need that type of power.
    You know what the Hijab is? It's the Dixie flag of religion, specifically Islam in this case. You see there is also a lot of people, especially in the South, that would argue up and down that the Dixie flag somehow represents freedom, independence or some other BS. The same flag mind you that was carried into battle by men that were willing (and some who did) to die to protect slavery. And you know what the funny this? There's a lot of people that believe that kind of crap, and can in one moment talk about blacks deserving equal rights while they have a sticker of that flag on the bumper of their truck.

    It's no different than the Hijab. Oh I'm sure there are many women that believe that it stands for modesty or purity. But that doesn't change the fact that in the Arab world, literally millions of women are forced into wearing those things and are being oppressed in the process. Maybe there was a time long ago where one could argue that it represented those values I mentioned, but today isn't that. Today, it's just another reminder of what the Arab world is really about. And what many of those who emigrate from the region to places in Europe want to bring with them. Which incidentally is why after some thought I do support banning it from public places, as today it's no more than a symbol of oppression, just like the Dixie flag for many today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    God bless our troops! Now, off to fight another pagan religion.
    In case you haven't heard, that fight's being brought to us:

    Denmark attacks: Two men charged in Copenhagen

    And before you bring up your usual garbage about this "being the result of US foreign policy", keep in mind this is Denmark that the attacks occurred please.
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 02-17-15 at 09:30 AM.

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You know what the Hijab is? It's the Dixie flag of religion, specifically Islam in this case. You see there is also a lot of people, especially in the South, that would argue up and down that the Dixie flag somehow represents freedom, independence or some other BS. The same flag mind you that was carried into battle by men that were willing (and some who did) to die to protect slavery. And you know what the funny this? There's a lot of people that believe that kind of crap, and can in one moment talk about blacks deserving equal rights while they have a sticker of that flag on the bumper of their truck.

    It's no different than the Hijab. Oh I'm sure there are many women that believe that it stands for modesty or purity. But that doesn't change the fact that in the Arab world, literally millions of women are forced into wearing those things and are being oppressed in the process. Maybe there was a time long ago where one could argue that it represented those values I mentioned, but today isn't that. Today, it's just another reminder of what the Arab world is really about. And what many of those who emigrate from the region to places in Europe want to bring with them. Which incidentally is why after some thought I do support banning it from public places, as today it's no more than a symbol of oppression, just like the Dixie flag for many today.
    Sorry, but the young southern men fighting were poor (slaves weren't cheap and wealthy owned them) and weren't thinking about dying for a slave. They had state rights on their minds, autonomy and freedom from what had become an all powerful central government that was now pressing their will at gun point!!! And no doubt a deep seated hatred of it, which in some ways persists to the present.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Should the U.S. government tell a specific religion what they can teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You know what the Hijab is? It's the Dixie flag of religion, specifically Islam in this case.
    Like I said, that is what it is to you. The government has no business whatsoever telling Muslim women what to think about wearing the Hijab.

    Speaking of the Dixie flag, it means something to me, be it means something totally different to some others. And while I want my freedom to view it as I see fit, I want others to have that freedom as well.

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