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Can Muslims ever condemn ISIS enough?

Can Muslims ever condemn ISIS enough?

  • Total voters
    25
Amadeus said:
Definitely disagree.

Malala-Yousafzai_Antonio-Olmos.jpg
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That's not quite a hijab. Her hair is showing and the fabric is sheer, both of which are considered 'haram.' If she wore that in public in Saudi Arabia or Iran she could be arrested for her lack of modesty. Pakistan doesn't have dress code laws and women are free to wear what the want. But they still risk getting acid thrown in their face by the Taliban if they don't wear a hijab. Pakistan women are very brave.
 
spud_meister said:
/facepalm.

I guess you could say the population that didn't fight condemned the British?

Why does the preferred reaction of the ME population keep shifting? First it was condemnation, and then it was fighting, now we've discovered how unrealistic it is for an entire population to take up arms, so they have to support the people fighting.
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Because no thread ever stays where it starts? I said that condemnation was not enough. You responded. This is where we are now. I don't care about condemnation, I care about action. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and it cannot be addressed by stern words and finger pointing. This is where we find out which nations are willing to get out there and fight the good fight and which ones will decide that saying tsk-tsk is enough. One gets my respect, one does not.
 
Amadeus said:
I don't care what is acceptable in Saudi Arabia. If a woman wore any of the below garments in public, in Canada, I'd never think of accusing them of extremism.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=hija...rhsATlm4LgCA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=907
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I wouldn't accuse them, either but I would definitely think it. Imo, it symbolizes oppression because a lot of women don't have a choice not to wear them. Plus, they're ugly.

The Quran doesn't mandate that women wear a hijab. They were invented in the 1960s or 70s. So it's basically a choice for women to wear them in western countries. But the thing is, if the hijab is worn for modesty and to avoid attention...then it's doing the exact opposite when worn in western countries. And if their attire is drawing attention then it's haram and negates the reason they wear them in the first place. So what is the point?

Anyway, I don't see many women wear them in my town....yet.... but when I do they sure stand out like a sore thumb and I can't help but think to myself, I'd hate to see that become the norm.
 
Moot said:
The Quran doesn't mandate that women wear a hijab. They were invented in the 1960s or 70s. So it's basically a choice for women to wear them in western countries. But the thing is, if the hijab is worn for modesty and to avoid attention...then it's doing the exact opposite when worn in western countries. And if their attire is drawing attention then it's haram and negates the reason they wear them in the first place. So what is the point?
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It depends on the country the Muslims woman comes from. I've seen Muslim women coming to Canada still wearing the hijab because it is part of their culture, and is what they are used to. It's just clothing, as far as I'm concerned. If they are in Canada, no one is forcing them by law to wear it.

Also keep in mind that women are forced to cover themselves in Western countries, just to a lesser degree. We don't object because it is the norm. A women coming from a Muslim nation may simply feel more 'clothed' wearing the hijab.
 
Amadeus said:
It depends on the country the Muslims woman comes from. I've seen Muslim women coming to Canada still wearing the hijab because it is part of their culture, and is what they are used to. It's just clothing, as far as I'm concerned. If they are in Canada, no one is forcing them by law to wear it.

Also keep in mind that women are forced to cover themselves in Western countries, just to a lesser degree. We don't object because it is the norm. A women coming from a Muslim nation may simply feel more 'clothed' wearing the hijab.
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Yes, when they come to western countries, it's a choice. Back home, they'd better wear it, and not leave home without a male relative. Moreover Allah will get them if they dare to drive a car, work outside the home, or vote.
 
Amadeus said:
It depends on the country the Muslims woman comes from. I've seen Muslim women coming to Canada still wearing the hijab because it is part of their culture, and is what they are used to. It's just clothing, as far as I'm concerned. If they are in Canada, no one is forcing them by law to wear it.

Also keep in mind that women are forced to cover themselves in Western countries, just to a lesser degree. We don't object because it is the norm. A women coming from a Muslim nation may simply feel more 'clothed' wearing the hijab.
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For someone who professes not to care about clothes, you seem to have a lot of empathy for how some Muslim women might feel without their binky er uh veil to hide behind. No doubt some women use the veil to hide behind and since misery loves company they force other women to do it too. Or they just don't like washing their hair...whatever. Women in the ME are forced to dress like nuns because men can't control their 'feelings' and it has nothing to do with the woman's feelings. Sometimes tolerance goes too far and does more damage than good. You're not doing women or humanity for that matter, any favors by ignoring 'why" they are wearing the veil. All the excuses are BS and just reinforce Islamic extremism to point where now they think they own the world and kill anyone even non believers who criticizes their religion with impunity.

For such a tolerant country, Canada says it promotes free speech but still has blasphemy laws on the books. I wonder if that includes Islam.

That brings me back to your question. No, I don' think Muslims who adhere to and practice extremist elements of Islam can ever condemn Islamic terrorism enough. It's shameful enough that so many of them think the cartoonists deserved it but that so many westerners and non-Muslims do, too. Those are the real apologists for terrorism.
 
Amadeus said:
Muslims have been condemning ISIS since its inception, yet whenever they do, it's suddenly a new event. Many greet the news of Muslim condemnation of ISIS with a critical yawn, or accuse them of being too late. Can Muslims ever condemn ISIS enough to please you?
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Muslims should have been TCB, since 2001. With a vengeance.
If 20 Americans went to some nation and did what they did, we would say "let them have it". Throw the book at them.
 
Moot said:
For someone who professes not to care about clothes, you seem to have a lot of empathy for how some Muslim women might feel without their binky er uh veil to hide behind. No doubt some women use the veil to hide behind and since misery loves company they force other women to do it too. Or they just don't like washing their hair...whatever. Women in the ME are forced to dress like nuns because men can't control their 'feelings' and it has nothing to do with the woman's feelings. Sometimes tolerance goes too far and does more damage than good. You're not doing women or humanity for that matter, any favors by ignoring 'why" they are wearing the veil. All the excuses are BS and just reinforce Islamic extremism to point where now they think they own the world and kill anyone even non believers who criticizes their religion with impunity.

For such a tolerant country, Canada says it promotes free speech but still has blasphemy laws on the books. I wonder if that includes Islam.

That brings me back to your question. No, I don' think Muslims who adhere to and practice extremist elements of Islam can ever condemn Islamic terrorism enough. It's shameful enough that so many of them think the cartoonists deserved it but that so many westerners and non-Muslims do, too. Those are the real apologists for terrorism.
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Many democracies have laws on the books that are unenforceable. Check Sodomy laws in the us- consenting adults-
12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling
Yep, we are quite tolerant up here.
Yet many Muslim condemn extremists on a regular basis and that is not sufficient for you?
If not, what else can they do?
 
Mycroft said:
I agree that it's a good thing that Jordan is getting in on the action, though I'm disappointed that it took a horrific killing of one of their citizens to get them going.

However, as much as their current bombing can be considered a good thing, there is also reason to believe it's really not all that good and that it could be much better...or, at least, the US could do much better if Jordan is incapable.

Consider:



As I said, I think it's a good thing that Jordan is now active against ISIS, but I also think their activity is much like the US's activity...too little to be of much use.
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They were doing it before that guy died. He was captured after his plane crashed while flying with American pilots on a bombing run.
 
JANFU said:
Many democracies have laws on the books that are unenforceable. Check Sodomy laws in the us- consenting adults-
12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling
Yep, we are quite tolerant up here.
Yet many Muslim condemn extremists on a regular basis and that is not sufficient for you?
If not, what else can they do?
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As I tried to explain earlier I don't think advocating religious oppression of women while condemning religious violence at the same time is sufficient....in fact, I think it's hypocritical.
 
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JANFU said:
Many democracies have laws on the books that are unenforceable. Check Sodomy laws in the us- consenting adults-
12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling
Yep, we are quite tolerant up here.
Yet many Muslim condemn extremists on a regular basis and that is not sufficient for you?
If not, what else can they do?
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I hope you are aware that they cannot simply remove the laws from the books, they have to actually be challenged in the individual states. All of those laws are no longer operable, they are not enforced. They sit in a big book on a shelf and mean absolutely nothing.
 
Cephus said:
I hope you are aware that they cannot simply remove the laws from the books, they have to actually be challenged in the individual states. All of those laws are no longer operable, they are not enforced. They sit in a big book on a shelf and mean absolutely nothing.
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Yes I am aware that a law must be repealed by the legislative body that approved them. Reason countries have laws on the books that are out of date. I am sure if you search long enough, hornless carriages & restrictions on use will come up from time to time
Unfortunately Sodomy have been used after SCOTUS threw them out.
 
JANFU said:
Yes I am aware that a law must be repealed by the legislative body that approved them. Reason countries have laws on the books that are out of date. I am sure if you search long enough, hornless carriages & restrictions on use will come up from time to time
Unfortunately Sodomy have been used after SCOTUS threw them out.
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I'm sure it's been tried, it hasn't been used successfully. There are still states that have laws on the books forbidding atheists from holding office, even though SCOTUS threw out those laws back in the mid-60s. They're welcome to try, they will always lose.
 
Amadeus said:
Muslims have been condemning ISIS since its inception, yet whenever they do, it's suddenly a new event. Many greet the news of Muslim condemnation of ISIS with a critical yawn, or accuse them of being too late. Can Muslims ever condemn ISIS enough to please you?
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Yes, and they have. Positive polling results too I might add.
 
Other Muslims condemning ISIS is fine. But that's just words.

At least with Jordan, there's action behind those words. We can only hope that this action that Jordan has taken will draw in other Muslim nations and other Muslims to take equal action.

Actions speak louder than words.
 
eohrnberger said:
Other Muslims condemning ISIS is fine. But that's just words.

At least with Jordan, there's action behind those words. We can only hope that this action that Jordan has taken will draw in other Muslim nations and other Muslims to take equal action.

Actions speak louder than words.
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So the Muslims church in say the Philippines can't just condemn Islamic extremism from the pulpit, they need to pass the plate, tack up collections, buy an F-16 and take the fight to the Islamic state. :doh
 
Montecresto said:
So the Muslims church in say the Philippines can't just condemn Islamic extremism from the pulpit, they need to pass the plate, tack up collections, buy an F-16 and take the fight to the Islamic state. :doh
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Not what I was saying, and you know that. Come on!

For the longest time, seemingly silence from other Muslims on the barbaric behaviors of their brethren in the Middle East.

Now they are openly condemning, not because westerners were killed, maimed, or beheaded, but because a fellow Muslim, in this case a Jordanian pilot, was killed. That should speak volumes to begin with.

Even so, I welcome them to the fight against ISIS.
 
eohrnberger said:
Not what I was saying, and you know that. Come on!

For the longest time, seemingly silence from other Muslims on the barbaric behaviors of their brethren in the Middle East.

Now they are openly condemning, not because westerners were killed, maimed, or beheaded, but because a fellow Muslim, in this case a Jordanian pilot, was killed. That should speak volumes to begin with.

Even so, I welcome them to the fight against ISIS.
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Sorry dude, you compared Muslim clerics who have been condemning Islamic extremists all along with the Jordanian government who is flying sorties against the Islamic state. Saying that one is empty words and the other is action. That's bull****. Muslim clerics are not obliged to engage the filthy Islamic state. Your hate of all Muslims is flashing in your post. Furthermore, Muslim clerics the world over have been condemning Islamic extremism for a long time, it's been covered in the international press all along, it's just that US press has only just began to turn the volume up on it. This is why our former SoS testified before congress that American media is fluff and no substance, while the international press, rt, Al Jazeera, Press etc are winning the information war. Turn off FOX news, and learn not to be a hater.
 
Montecresto said:
Sorry dude, you compared Muslim clerics who have been condemning Islamic extremists all along with the Jordanian government who is flying sorties against the Islamic state. Saying that one is empty words and the other is action. That's bull****. Muslim clerics are not obliged to engage the filthy Islamic state. Your hate of all Muslims is flashing in your post. Furthermore, Muslim clerics the world over have been condemning Islamic extremism for a long time, it's been covered in the international press all along, it's just that US press has only just began to turn the volume up on it. This is why our former SoS testified before congress that American media is fluff and no substance, while the international press, rt, Al Jazeera, Press etc are winning the information war. Turn off FOX news, and learn not to be a hater.
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Where in
eohrnberger said:
Other Muslims condemning ISIS is fine. But that's just words.

At least with Jordan, there's action behind those words. We can only hope that this action that Jordan has taken will draw in other Muslim nations and other Muslims to take equal action.

Actions speak louder than words.
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do you get 'empty' words? I never used the word 'empty'. Nor did I call out any 'clerics'. So you 'imagined' two words that I didn't put in there. I never said anything about "Muslim clerics are not obliged to engage the filthy Islamic state", nor do I have any "hate of all Muslims is flashing in your post. " You are imagining things yet again.

I have no problem with Muslims, nor anyone who practices the Islamic faith. I do have a problem with the Militant Islamic Fundamentalists. If you look back over my posting history, you'll see that I've drawn that most important distinction for quite some time already, by specifically using that term to refer to these animals.

So really, you are imagining things that aren't there.

Montecresto said:
Muslim clerics the world over have been condemning Islamic extremism for a long time, it's been covered in the international press all along, it's just that US press has only just began to turn the volume up on it.
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To which the fault lies with the Biased Lame Stream Media (BLSM). Covering those instances may very well have headed off much needless Islamophobia, but I can see their perspective, should there be Islamic hate crimes, they'd get better ratings covering that.
 
eohrnberger said:
Where in

do you get 'empty' words? I never used the word 'empty'. Nor did I call out any 'clerics'. So you 'imagined' two words that I didn't put in there. I never said anything about "Muslim clerics are not obliged to engage the filthy Islamic state", nor do I have any "hate of all Muslims is flashing in your post. " You are imagining things yet again.

I have no problem with Muslims, nor anyone who practices the Islamic faith. I do have a problem with the Militant Islamic Fundamentalists. If you look back over my posting history, you'll see that I've drawn that most important distinction for quite some time already, by specifically using that term to refer to these animals.

So really, you are imagining things that aren't there.



To which the fault lies with the Biased Lame Stream Media (BLSM). Covering those instances may very well have headed off much needless Islamophobia, but I can see their perspective, should there be Islamic hate crimes, they'd get better ratings covering that.
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You said Muslim condemnation is just words, and Jordan has action behind their words. So I ask you once again to shelve your hatred of Muslims, and tell me what "action" they should take so that they could have the credibility of the Jordanian government, hmm?
 
Montecresto said:
You said Muslim condemnation is just words, and Jordan has action behind their words. So I ask you once again to shelve your hatred of Muslims, and tell me what "action" they should take so that they could have the credibility of the Jordanian government, hmm?
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When a Muslim speaks, does he speak words? Yes.
When a Muslim speaks and praises Allah, does he speak words? Yes.
When a Muslim speaks and condemns the actions of Militant Islamic Fundamentalists is he speaking words? Yes.

Does observing that actions speak louder than words exhibit hatred of someone? No.

So what was your point again?

Don't think that any Muslim cleric, especially the ones preaching radicalism, could ever have as much credibility as the King of Jordan nor the Jordan nation in action, because, at the end of the day, actions do in fact speak louder than words. And frankly, this can be said of everyone / anyone.

So what was your point again?
 
Montecresto said:
You said Muslim condemnation is just words, and Jordan has action behind their words. So I ask you once again to shelve your hatred of Muslims, and tell me what "action" they should take so that they could have the credibility of the Jordanian government, hmm?
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ISIS sure does have an easy time with recruiting. Wouldn't you agree there's something very wrong with that reality?
 
eohrnberger said:
When a Muslim speaks, does he speak words? Yes.
When a Muslim speaks and praises Allah, does he speak words? Yes.
When a Muslim speaks and condemns the actions of Militant Islamic Fundamentalists is he speaking words? Yes.

Does observing that actions speak louder than words exhibit hatred of someone? No.

So what was your point again?

Don't think that any Muslim cleric, especially the ones preaching radicalism, could ever have as much credibility as the King of Jordan nor the Jordan nation in action, because, at the end of the day, actions do in fact speak louder than words. And frankly, this can be said of everyone / anyone.

So what was your point again?
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To criticise your assertion that the Jordanian government is superior to Muslim clerics because all they do is speak words of condemnation, whereas the Jordanians are flying sorties, which of course is stupid. And being coy isn't protecting you. Anything to disparage the Muslim. And again, what "action" should Muslim clerics take that would elevate them to the same level of praise that you have for the Jordanian government, hmm?
 
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