View Poll Results: Should Doctor assisted suicide be legal?

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  • yes

    201 90.54%
  • Depends on the regulation put in place and circumstances

    12 5.41%
  • no

    9 4.05%
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Thread: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

  1. #281
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Good topic sentence for the post that follows.



    Yes, unalienable means inherent. You can't abdicate an unalienable right, because it is inherent.

    So no one will ever have the right to kill you in aggression. Thanks for playing, buh-bye.
    Unalienable human rights just mean that no-one can take them away from you. The government cannot take away these rights, the doctors cannot take away that right, but you can voluntarily want to deny yourself that right.

    With euthanasia you choose to end your life, the doctor is just carrying out your wishes.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  2. #282
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    So who's initiating force?
    Initiating force has nothing to do with aggression. Point out an actual definition of the Word Aggression from any dictionary of your choosing that gives this impression - that force alone defines an act aggressive.

    I mean let's go ahead and look at the word "force" -


    Force | Define Force at Dictionary.com

    18.
    to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something:
    to force a suspect to confess.
    19.
    to drive or propel against resistance:
    He forced his way through the crowd. They forced air into his lungs.
    20.
    to bring about or effect by force.
    21.
    to bring about of necessity or as a necessary result:
    to force a smile.
    22.
    to put or impose (something or someone) forcibly on or upon a person:
    to force one's opinions on others.
    23.
    to compel by force; overcome the resistance of:
    to force acceptance of something.
    24.
    to obtain or draw forth by or as if by force; extort:
    So force basically means to apply an exerted effort against something. The intensity in which that force is being applied can vary. I can force a page to turn in my book, but that doesn't mean I have aggressively done so. How do I figure? Well let's go ahead and look at the definition of "aggression" - you may be familiar with it.

    Aggression - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    : a forceful action or procedure (as an unprovoked attack) especially when intended to dominate or master
    2
    : the practice of making attacks or encroachments; especially : unprovoked violation by one country of the territorial integrity of another
    3
    : hostile, injurious, or destructive behavior or outlook especially when caused by frustration
    Mhm. Interesting. So the key words are highlighted. But see how force, in of it's self, does not constitute as Aggression?


    Yeah, no, it isn't legal here, thanks. And this thread is specifically about America.
    That's a lie. It is legal in our country.




    Right, so the patient asks the doctor to violate his rights, and the doctor complies, violating his rights by initiating force meaning he has perpetrated a homicide in aggression with malice aforethought; in any sane criminal jurisdiction, this will be prosecuted as murder. In mine, it would be.
    No right has been violated. The patient has a right to choose death, especially if they are suffering and they can choose to then seek professional help in doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  3. #283
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Unalienable human rights just mean that no-one can take them away from you.
    If you understand that no one can take them away from you, then you wouldn't proceed with anything else you have to say.

    but you can voluntarily want to deny yourself that right
    .

    No. Unalienable means you cannot abdicate the right. You can kill yourself, but you cannot give anyone else permission to do so; if you try, that permission is not legally valid nor does it make the killing morally permissible.

  4. #284
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    So who's initiating force?
    The patient is asking for the help of the doctor to end his/her life.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Yeah, no, it isn't legal here, thanks. And this thread is specifically about America.

    I know your semantic games pretty well by now, it seems.
    And this poll was about whether or not doctor assisted suicide should be legal/lawful in the United States and my comments were about that too, they were a response to your post and I just asked, what is wrong with a patient asking (under specific conditions) a doctor to help them end their life/suffering.

    Nothing semantic about it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Right, so the patient asks the doctor to violate his rights, and the doctor complies, violating his rights by being the one to initiate force, specifically lethal force against another human being. This of course means that he has perpetrated a homicide in aggression with malice aforethought; in any sane criminal jurisdiction, this will be prosecuted as murder. In mine, it would be.

    The patient asking is irrelevant; you cannot abdicate an unalienable right.
    He does not ask the doctor to violate his rights, he is asking the doctor to honor his wishes to end his/her suffering. And if it becomes legal in the United States that the doctor would be honoring the patients wish.

    And you can keep throwing the word "force" around but that word has nothing to do with euthanasia at all. Nothing force, nothing forceful, no initiation of force, nothing whatsoever. It is a very peaceful and docile procedure.

    And if it is legal, it would not be homicide in aggression at all.

    And a patient has the unalienable right to not have his life taken from him against his wish, if he wants to end his life than he has chosen not to invoke his rights, because they are his rights, not anybody else's and what he does with his right is his business. His freedom to do with what he wants.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  5. #285
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Initiating force has nothing to do with aggression.
    Uggggggggghhhhhhhhh.

    We're not talking about emotions.

    You cherry picked a definition, let's look at it.

    UNPROVOKED ATTACK
    MAKING ATTACKS, UNPROVOKED VIOLATION
    HOSTILE, INJURIOUS, DESTRUCTIVE

    So yeah. AKA, "the initiation of force."

    No right has been violated.
    Okay dude, I get it. You don't believe in the human right to life. You don't have to keep belaboring the point. Unfortunately, I still have to want your right to life protected even though you don't give a **** about it.

  6. #286
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Unalienable human rights just mean that no-one can take them away from you. The government cannot take away these rights, the doctors cannot take away that right, but you can voluntarily want to deny yourself that right.

    With euthanasia you choose to end your life, the doctor is just carrying out your wishes.
    While I agree with you whole heartedly about euthanasia, I have an issue with unalienable rights. I know that gets thrown around a lot but it's my belief that all rights are issued by government. As an example of this, I offer the one child policy in China. Children who are killed by the government because their birth violates that policy have no right to life in China, although I personally believe they should.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  7. #287
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    If you understand that no one can take them away from you, then you wouldn't proceed with anything else you have to say.

    No. Unalienable means you cannot abdicate the right. You can kill yourself, but you cannot give anyone else permission to do so; if you try, that permission is not legally valid nor does it make the killing morally permissible.
    They are rights that can not be taken from you, but in the case of euthanasia, doctor assisted suicide or just regular suicide, you are the one who chooses to no longer make use of those rights.

    The rights have not been taken away, not been transferred or not denied, you choose to not use that right that you have.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  8. #288
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Good topic sentence for the post that follows.



    Yes, unalienable means inherent. You can't abdicate an unalienable right, because it is inherent.

    So no one will ever have the right to kill you in aggression. Thanks for playing, buh-bye.
    They're not killing you in PAS. There's a difference between PAS and Euthanasia.

    They're simply giving me the means to which you then kill yourself.

    That being said, I think euthanasia should also be legal with the informed and emotionally competent consent of the person wanting to be killed.

    What would you prefer? Someone try in vain to slit their wrists and end up wasting **** loads of taxpayer money when they get sent to the hospital for care?
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  9. #289
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    They are rights that can not be taken from you, but in the case of euthanasia, doctor assisted suicide or just regular suicide, you are the one who chooses to no longer make use of those rights.

    The rights have not been taken away, not been transferred or not denied, you choose to not use that right that you have.
    Exactly. The right was never given away. It was simply not exercised. You still had it, it's inalienable since it can never leave you. But you chose not to exercise it.

    Don't mind the totalitarian disguised as a libertarian trying to tell you otherwise.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  10. #290
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post

    We're not talking about emotions.
    I never said we were. Strange how you can't create a rebuttal without first putting words in your oppositions mouth.

    You cherry picked a definition, let's look at it.
    Cherry picked? I copy and pasted the entire definition for everyone to see.
    UNPROVOKED ATTACK
    MAKING ATTACKS, UNPROVOKED VIOLATION
    HOSTILE, INJURIOUS, DESTRUCTIVE
    Look up the word unprovoked, contrary to being provoked by a request.

    Look up the word Violation, it's contrary to partaking in a mutual agreement in which both parties are willingly participating and not being imposed upon.

    Look up the word hostile - as in not doing something for the sake of compassion and mercy.
    So yeah. AKA, "the initiation of force."
    Nope. Not even close.


    Okay dude, I get it.
    Yeah, no you really don't. It's something you are having a hard time grasping.
    You don't believe in the human right to life.
    Do I? I don't recall ever saying that, but does insisting that I did say that somehow make my rebuttal easier for you to attack.

    Your Logical Fallacy is Strawman

    You don't have to keep belaboring the point.
    A point that I never made can't possibly have been belabored by me.

    Unfortunately, I still have to want your right to life protected even though you don't give a **** about it.
    You don't want my rights protected. Which is why you would sooner have me starve to death than to allow me to request my physician assist in suicide. A death that would be infinitely more preferable than starvation.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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