View Poll Results: Should Doctor assisted suicide be legal?

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  • yes

    201 90.54%
  • Depends on the regulation put in place and circumstances

    12 5.41%
  • no

    9 4.05%
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Thread: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

  1. #241
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    No, by definition he is correct. Killing is always harm.

    For someone who complains about other people, you seem to lack grounding in what a lot of very basic terms mean.
    When the person wants to die, begs to die....."killing" causing harm is quite subjective.

  2. #242
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    When the person wants to die, begs to die....."killing" causing harm is quite subjective.
    "Killing" in quotation marks. Yowza.

    If someone is alive and you perform an act that causes physical injury to them to the extent that they die from your action, yes, that's the very definition of harm and yes, that's the very definition of killing.

  3. #243
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    "Killing" in quotation marks. Yowza.

    If someone is alive and you perform an act that causes physical injury to them to the extent that they die from your action, yes, that's the very definition of harm and yes, that's the very definition of killing.
    Injury is in the eye of the beholder.

  4. #244
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Injury is in the eye of the beholder.
    No. There is, in fact, an objective medical definition.

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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Injury is in the eye of the beholder.
    That lime is not objectively a lime. No, it's only subjectively a lime. Yes, everything in the world is subjective. ****, what in the hell is going on with you ladies?

  6. #246
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That lime is not objectively a lime. No, it's only subjectively a lime. Yes, everything in the world is subjective. ****, what in the hell is going on with you ladies?
    What you call "injury" may be someone else's end of suffering. The end of pain. The person who is asking for Physician Assisted Suicide would consider the act help rather than harm.

  7. #247
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    What you call "injury" may be someone else's end of suffering. The end of pain. The person who is asking for Physician Assisted Suicide would consider the act help rather than harm.
    There is just nothing else I can say about the absurdity of your posts. I suppose when my kid falls off his bike I can just tell him that injury is subjective and it's only his opinion that he is injuried. Indeed, even if he claims he is hurt according to your logic I can accurately claim he is not hurt at all even when perhaps he is covered in blood from an open wound.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-08-15 at 07:56 AM.

  8. #248
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    No I haven't warped a single thing, that is your strawman though.
    This is a lie. You compared palliation with homicide. They are not the same thing. Anyone looking at the facts in a rational manner knows the difference between treating an uncomfortable symptom to give relief and deliberately killing someone.

    No it doesn't. That is just your skewed opinion on a doctor who, in his medical expertise, can see the suffering of an individual and at that individuals request allow them to pass peacefully. There is nothing about that - that is aggressive, unethical, or murderous. Period.

    No they wouldn't. With precedence set in the U.S. by some states - and the fact that the reason for the assisted suicide would be taken into consideration. There would be no reason for serious charges.
    Yawn. Jack Kevorkian, convicted murderer. Deny it all you want. If you don't believe killing folks in aggression in my state would land you in prison for the rest of your life, I suppose you could try it, but I wouldn't recommend it.

    I know it's meaning. Murder, by law, is defined as killing with malice aforethought.
    So what, you're claiming that your theoretical Kevorkian-esque contract killer "doctor" is killing them on accident? This is a hired killing, it is intentional and premeditated.

    Nothing in this sentence is a fact that can't be amended by further regulatory wording written into some book for legislation. You appeal to the authority to old archaic words of man is noted, but your insistence that such fallible decrees can not be updated continues to be the wrench in your argument.
    Old archaic, huh? Do you work for the Department of Redundancy Department, Redundancy Division?

    Okay here are some archaic words of man. I sort of respect them for some reason, I dunno.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
    This is the mission statement of the United States. Like most libertarians, I agree with it wholeheartedly.

    UNALIENABLE.

    You can't sell yourself into slavery. You're not allowed to do so even if you want to. You can work for someone for no money if you choose to, but you cannot become their property and you will ALWAYS retain the liberty to stop doing so.

    You can give away your property, but you can't give away your right to own property.

    You can't give someone else permission to kill you, or rather, even if you do, it doesn't matter, killing you would still be an act of aggression because they are initiating force against you.

    Killing other humans is wrong unless it's necessary to do so in self-defense, to defend your own rights against the aggression of others. I don't even support execution.


    If the maxim "killing is wrong unless absolutely necessary to defend yourself" is something you consider unethical and archaic, then that's your right to think that, and it's my right to be thankful I do not live anywhere near someone who is openly "morally flexible" on the principle of whether or not killing other humans in aggression is okay, since, you know, I happen to be a human and I kind of hope other people will not kill me. As a rule, I'm wary of those who promote needless killing.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 02-08-15 at 08:21 AM.

  9. #249
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    "Killing" in quotation marks. Yowza.

    If someone is alive and you perform an act that causes physical injury to them to the extent that they die from your action, yes, that's the very definition of harm and yes, that's the very definition of killing.
    Okay, I agree with this much. But that is not what assisted suicide is about. That is what euthanasia is about. In assisted suicide the doctor does not kill the patient. The patient kills him/herself by ingesting a lethal drug cocktail. Am I understanding correctly that you equate the action of providing the drugs with the actual act of killing someone? If I know that someone wants to kill themselves and I give them my gun, which they proceed to use to blow their brains out, should I be charged with murder? Complicity to murder? Something else? ...
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #250
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    Re: Should American adopt the right to Doctor Assisted Suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Okay, I agree with this much. But that is not what assisted suicide is about. That is what euthanasia is about. In assisted suicide the doctor does not kill the patient. The patient kills him/herself by ingesting a lethal drug cocktail. Am I understanding correctly that you equate the action of providing the drugs with the actual act of killing someone? If I know that someone wants to kill themselves and I give them my gun, which they proceed to use to blow their brains out, should I be charged with murder? Complicity to murder? Something else? ...
    At this point, I would kind of like some clarification on what we're talking about here; the article in the OP does not clarify what the new law in Quebec even was, and the decision of Canada's SC was to just punt and give the legislation a year to make new policy, which obviously hasn't been written yet.

    Hell, some people equate not forcing fluids with euthanasia - they seriously call it "passive euthanasia." How dumb is that? NOT giving someone medication or fluids or something else they DON'T want is equated with killing them. That's just basic autonomy. Healthcare is a service; your patient (or their MPOA, etc.) comes to you and requests something, giving you permission to do so. Without that permission, you can't do things. NOT doing something they DON'T want should be obvious (with the possible ethical exception of when a parent is refusing to provide life-saving care for their kid, but that's its own topic entirely).

    * * *

    To be clear, what Kevorkian did which landed him in prison for murder was to administer lethal medication which killed his patient. He filmed this and 60 minutes aired it. He dared the state to arrest him on that film. They did, which is correct, because he was indisputably a murderer.

    I had made the assumption we were talking about the physician killing the patient. Everything I have said is about that. Nothing in any response to me up to this point has contradicted that assumption, and I do believe the people I am arguing against think it's okay for a physician to kill their patient.


    If you kill yourself, I am okay with that. I am not okay with aggressive killing; you cannot commit aggression against yourself. As an analogy, if someone else were to force you to use cocaine, that would be aggressive harm to your body; if you choose to use cocaine, you are only harming yourself.

    On the specific topic of being given something to consume yourself which will kill you, that is more morally fuzzy. You're right, you could just as well buy a gun and shoot yourself.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 02-08-15 at 08:44 AM.

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