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National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

Legal Weed: For or Against


  • Total voters
    75
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

You would really have to stretch to draw parallels between prohibition and the current war on drugs. Alcohol use is much, much more widespread, accepted, and the demand for alcohol is much higher than marijuana or any other drug.

Prohibition failed because, ultimately, the general public wanted to drink. Thankfully, the general public doesn't want to get stoned..... that's pretty much left up to old hippies and teenagers.

having spent almost a quarter of a century of my life watching the "war on drugs" up close and personal, I have concluded that it is a failure. It has given the government powers never intended in the Constitution and indeed, the federal war on drugs required a complete mutation of the Commerce Clause to even justify this crap. The abrogation of freedoms guaranteed by the Fourth, Fifth and other amendments are colossal and the millions of lives ruined by this war-from innocent victims caught in gang gun play, to people sentenced to hard time for non-violent offenses is staggering. Plus the astronomical costs imposed on society.

Drugs are bad-and I have little sympathy for people who screw up with drugs. But this war on drugs has caused far more problems than it as solved
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

having spent almost a quarter of a century of my life watching the "war on drugs" up close and personal, I have concluded that it is a failure. It has given the government powers never intended in the Constitution and indeed, the federal war on drugs required a complete mutation of the Commerce Clause to even justify this crap. The abrogation of freedoms guaranteed by the Fourth, Fifth and other amendments are colossal and the millions of lives ruined by this war-from innocent victims caught in gang gun play, to people sentenced to hard time for non-violent offenses is staggering. Plus the astronomical costs imposed on society.

Drugs are bad-and I have little sympathy for people who screw up with drugs. But this war on drugs has caused far more problems than it as solved

I think you're placing the blame on the wrong people. If you don't want to end up in jail, don't peddle illegal substances. The people ruining lives are the producers and dealers of illegal substances, and the people who use them are enablers.

In my mind, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If the war on drugs has been a failure, if it has resulted in unintended casualties, then the right question to ask is what can we do to ramp up our efforts in order to put the drug lords out of business?

I listen to what you say and it leads me to believe that we should do MORE. We should crack down harder. Not give up.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I think you're placing the blame on the wrong people. If you don't want to end up in jail, don't peddle illegal substances. The people ruining lives are the producers and dealers of illegal substances, and the people who use them are enablers.

In my mind, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If the war on drugs has been a failure, if it has resulted in unintended casualties, then the right question to ask is what can we do to ramp up our efforts in order to put the drug lords out of business?

I listen to what you say and it leads me to believe that we should do MORE. We should crack down harder. Not give up.


that's a cop out. The war on drugs has been a failure for the public. Its been great for the government in terms of the power it has given the government, and the money it gets.

your concept of libertarianism is really interesting to me based on those sentiments. what other constitutional rights do you want to jettison to advance this war? legalizing drugs will put the drug lords out of business faster than any of your constitutional-bruising schemes. and tell me where the federal government actually got a proper power to tell the citizens of say Colorado that they are violating FEDERAL drug laws by smoking reefer grown and sold exclusively inside that state?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

We tried making alcohol illegal once, it didn't work out very well. No way I would want to go down that road again. Besides, I like to tip one back every now and then just like most folks.

With weed, it's illegal now, and I'm quite happy with the status quo. I don't think society benefits from having a million more stoners laying around in front of their playstations, and I believe that legalization would lead to more people abusing the drug.

I take a practical approach to the issue.

Do you think there's a million people who don't smoke pot because it's illegal but would if it weren't? I don't think there's even one. And I instinctively say there's needs to be a damn good reason for every law and I just don't see it here.
I think my approach is the practical one, but it's all smoke anyway. It'll be a long time before the political sophistication exists in North America to repeal the prohibition on drugs.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I wouldnt for the simple reason it will need regulated both FDA wise and law wise and that will take on additional money that should be provided by the industry . . but thats just my two cents . . .

There are plenty of products on the market (supplements, etc.) which are not regulated by the FDA and if it is now a legal product, then what "law wise" are you describing?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Alright, and I don't think pot should be legal because it ruins lives and it is appealing to young people. In spite of what you might think, legalizing it will only make usage go up.... look at Colorado, for example. Now, it's hard to find someone living in that state who doesn't smoke marijuana. In neighboring Utah, Kansas, or Wyoming, pot use is much lower.

A couple of things - all drugs ruin lives and are appealing to young people, alcohol included, and half of 18-25 year olds in CO binge drink. Second, we don't know over time whether legalization makes usage go up. In CO, the data show use by high school kids has declined from 2009 thru 2013 as they've legalized use, and was lower than the national average despite the permissive laws over that time period. In 2014, the data show use did go up for all ages, but we don't know if that will continue or if large numbers will use a little bit and then use trends back down.

I don't think we should give up on the war on drugs just because we've hit some bumps in the road. Anyone who compares it to the prohibition era is overstating the problem. Drug use in this country is not nearly as rampant or widespread as alcohol use was during that time, and that's because we send a clear message about its effects on health.

I'm not sure I'd characterize decades of total failure, especially with pot, as bumps in the road. It's cheap everywhere and available to anyone with a phone, everywhere. Seriously - what even small skirmish has been won? And in the meantime we have the largest population of prisoners on the planet, in raw numbers and per capita. Seems worth considering whether that money can be better spent in treatment, education, etc.

And the parallels with prohibition are accurate - basically, especially with pot, the population doesn't respect laws against sale or use, which is why we're on a train to legalization or decriminalization nationwide. Most people know drugs aren't good for you, but they also know that pot is no worse than liquor or wine, which kill 88,000 per year versus almost none for pot.

At the end of the day, to me, it's about kids. If the only people smoking weed were old hippies from the Tommy Chong era, I wouldn't have any problem with that. To those people, I say toke up man, you earned it. But I'm not for anything that encourages, or imparts an air of permissiveness toward weed smoking among people under the age of 30.

The problem is there is just no data that show legalization will cause more kids to smoke pot. I cited the study in CO above. This study looked at medical marijuana laws elsewhere - no change in teen use. Which isn't that surprising because pot is simply easily available everywhere, and it's not regulated at all, so ALL sellers will sell to anyone with the money.

I think I could get behind legalizing marijuana for medicinal purposes, although I'm on the fence there. For recreational purposes to anyone over 18.... hell no.

I guess I don't see why not. Pot is a drug, alcohol is a drug..... Roughly 40,000 die each year just from alcohol USE - the health effects. Another 50,000 die in accidents, drunk driving, etc. Pot is objectively far lower on both counts - roughly zero die from use alone. Objectively it's impossible for me to make a case against legal use by adults for any reason.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

1.)There are plenty of products on the market (supplements, etc.) which are not regulated by the FDA
2.) and if it is now a legal product, then what "law wise" are you describing?

1.) yes there are, why does that impact my reasoning though? Things that arent regulated usually fall in a certain class and i wouldnt want it unregulated just like i wouldnt want alcohol unregulated or meat.
2.) just like there are still laws about alcohol etc there will still be laws needed for this
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Some places already have twenty year sentences. Guess what? People still sell pot.

a few have harsher penalties

and that is when you guys start clamoring that the end is near

poor poor drug dealer

20 year sentence....so he chose to try and lighten it by working with the prosecutors

tragic....but caused by him SELLING drugs in the first place
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

a few have harsher penalties

and that is when you guys start clamoring that the end is near

poor poor drug dealer

20 year sentence....so he chose to try and lighten it by working with the prosecutors

tragic....but caused by him SELLING drugs in the first place

I'm not convinced you know how law works or for that matter gets passed.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

a few have harsher penalties

and that is when you guys start clamoring that the end is near

poor poor drug dealer

20 year sentence....so he chose to try and lighten it by working with the prosecutors

tragic....but caused by him SELLING drugs in the first place

What did the man do wrong exactly? All he did was sell pot to a willing buyer. Why does that call for imprisonment for twenty years? So to keep things balanced I suppose murders should be skinned alive.
 
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Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

What did the man do wrong exactly? All he did was sell pot to a willing buyer. Why does that call for imprisonment for twenty years? So to keep things balanced I suppose murders should be skinned alive.


this is really simple

even a two year old should be able to answer

is SELLING drugs in North Dakota against the law? yes or no?

that is what he did wrong....it may not be wrong in your eyes....but your opinion doesnt count for **** here

the law is what the law is.....and people living there have to live within those rules, or face the consequences

it really is that simple
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

1.) yes there are, why does that impact my reasoning though? Things that arent regulated usually fall in a certain class and i wouldnt want it unregulated just like i wouldnt want alcohol unregulated or meat.
2.) just like there are still laws about alcohol etc there will still be laws needed for this

Laws are one thing, enforcement another--and the costs associated with each. Sure there are things like labeling and consumer information, which is reasonable for any product. There is also enforcement, which could be minimized if weed were sold in the same places and controls used for those who sell alcohol.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

What did the man do wrong exactly? All he did was sell pot to a willing buyer. Why does that call for imprisonment for twenty years? So to keep things balanced I suppose murders should be skinned alive.

nothing annoys this lawyer and retired prosecutor more than saying something is WRONG merely because it is illegal. IN a free society, intelligent citizens should constantly challenge the merits of ANY prohibitions that ban or limit activity that is not clearly objectively harmful and coercive.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I take a practical approach to the issue.

The overall effect of marijuana prohibition in the last 80+ years has been to increase usage and availability, while swelling our prison population.

On the other hand, in 30-40 years of campaigning, we have reduced tobacco use by about 50% nationwide, without banning it or putting anyone in prison.

Why should we thing think similar campaigns wouldn't be more effective than the status quo at reducing marijuana usage?

You acknowledge alcohol prohibition was an abject failure, and it was correct for us to end that after only 13 years. Why shouldn't we have doubled down in 1933, as we have repeatedly with marijuana for most of a century?

How is that practical?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

this is really simple

even a two year old should be able to answer

is SELLING drugs in North Dakota against the law? yes or no?

that is what he did wrong....it may not be wrong in your eyes....but your opinion doesnt count for **** here

the law is what the law is.....and people living there have to live within those rules, or face the consequences

it really is that simple

If everyone agrees with me, then your law is nothing but words on a piece of paper, but if I stand alone in disagreement, the law means a great deal of suffering for me. Law must have support or obedience to have any real value, but my opinion is mine and means something to me always. From what I can tell you can do nothing but scream at me to obey, and I must say I'm naturally defiant, and respond poorly to just because reasoning.
 
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Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

do you think i give a **** what you think?

Your strong language suggests that you do.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Laws are one thing, enforcement another--and the costs associated with each. Sure there are things like labeling and consumer information, which is reasonable for any product. There is also enforcement, which could be minimized if weed were sold in the same places and controls used for those who sell alcohol.

all correct but there is still the LCB and i would imagine expanding them or making an MCB would be needed
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

It will be a presidential campaign issue in 2016. Where do you stand on the issue?

It will ? Wow !

How far we've fallen. It shouldn't be a big issue, it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Important things like the economy, and Isis and doing away with the disaster that is ObamaCare should be important issues.

Not stoners " rights " to get high. Keep it illegal or leave it up to the States.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Another useless poll of numbers at a glance caused by visitor spam voting.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

It will be a presidential campaign issue in 2016. Where do you stand on the issue?

If this issue determines the next POTUS then we have no problems at all in the USA.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I am a liberal and for legalization.

With that said, I think it would come about quicker if NORML would start a campaign to keep it illegal using reverse psychology.

"Don't let the government tax our marijuana!"

:2razz:
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Don't want young people exposed to marijuana.

Yes, because young people do not have access to it already. Clearly you have never been to a high school. The legalization of marijuana would allow for adequate regulation to reduce access to young people, I also do not know anyone whose life has been ruined by it.
 
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