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National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

Legal Weed: For or Against


  • Total voters
    75
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I do. All drugs.

Awesome. At least you're consistent. And I'm glad you have no political power, because that would be quite a scary world to live in. A world in which countless people are addicted to heroin and all other sorts of drugs.

You know that drug addicts are many times more likely to commit serious crimes than non drug addicts?

That said, I don't even think cigarettes should be legal.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.

whats that have to do with weed, though?
i mean i agree with you, i knew people that did just what you are taking about . . . . .but "weed" had nothing to do with it
i knew people that are just like you are describing without the weed, just video games

just saying, those peoples problem are themselves or something else its not the weed . . . .
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

whats that have to do with weed, though?
i mean i agree with you, i knew people that did just what you are taking about . . . . .but "weed" had nothing to do with it
i knew people that are just like you are describing without the weed, just video games

just saying, those peoples problem are themselves or something else its not the weed . . . .

Agreed.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

whats that have to do with weed, though?
i mean i agree with you, i knew people that did just what you are taking about . . . . .but "weed" had nothing to do with it
i knew people that are just like you are describing without the weed, just video games

just saying, those peoples problem are themselves or something else its not the weed . . . .

But long term marijuana use is linked with lower dopamine levels, which causes a general lack of motivation.

I'm not saying that a lot of people who use the drug don't already lack motivation to begin with, but the drug does amplify that by changing the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado. We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation. I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
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I'm personally sorry to see that you've only experienced such a very limited scope of cannabis smokers. I, on the other hand, know of successful and well to do professionals who smoke pot.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.

But being against drug USE is different than supporting sending drug users and sellers to jail, ruining their lives.

I've seen many more lives ruined by alcohol than pot but we can have an alcohol kingpin (McCain) run for POTUS. And I can't think of a single objective metric which we'd evaluate pot worse than alcohol, but we're encouraged by ads consume one, and one sends people to jail. It's just impossible for me to find a reason to treat one substance different than the other, and since prohibition of alcohol failed, and prohibition of pot has a decades long history of failure, it should be legalized.

The other big problem with pot is it's illegal, but use is rampant, including by some very high profile public figures, such as our Presidents. I think many of those who oppose legalization can do so knowing that if they or their HS or college age child gets caught, they'll hire a lawyer, and the problem will go away - Junior can still go to med school and be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. But they're OK sending the lower class "dealer" to jail and hanging a felony on that person for selling it to Junior because Junior won't ever be a "dealer." Seems hypocritical to me, and in an especially pernicious way.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Libertarianism is the most naïve political philosophy out there.

OK, libertarian, do you want to legalize heroin as well?

yes...
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Awesome. At least you're consistent. And I'm glad you have no political power, because that would be quite a scary world to live in. A world in which countless people are addicted to heroin and all other sorts of drugs.

You know that drug addicts are many times more likely to commit serious crimes than non drug addicts?

That said, I don't even think cigarettes should be legal.

But crimes committed by drug users and dealers are in part a consequence of criminalization. There is also a relatively small share of the population that is inclined to use "hard" drugs and the evidence appears to be that those who are inclined pay no attention to drug laws. And the fact that drugs are illegal, possession punishable by jail time, makes treatment more difficult and less likely. So whether the Drug War actually does any good, reduces addiction or the problems associated with drug use, is not a given. What is known is criminalization is an invitation for crime, turf battles, drug related violence, it greatly increases the prison population and all the costs associated with housing them, felony convictions, etc.

Portugal's experiment with drug legalization has been a success. Drug use actually went DOWN, not up. Treatment went up, easily funded by drops in the incarceration rate.

Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

There are problems with assuming Portugal's approach would work in the U.S. but the bigger point is we assume criminalization somehow "works" to reduce the problems of drugs and there is simply a lot of evidence that our approach on balance at least MAY cause more problems than it actually solves.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Yes, legalize it. Legalize ALL drugs. My signature sums it up for me: Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse.

A quote from the link to LEAP in my signature:

We believe that drug prohibition is the true cause of much of the social and personal damage that has historically been attributed to drug use. It is prohibition that makes these drugs so valuable – while giving criminals a monopoly over their supply. Driven by the huge profits from this monopoly, criminal gangs bribe and kill each other, law enforcers, and children. Their trade is unregulated and they are, therefore, beyond our control.

History has shown that drug prohibition reduces neither use nor abuse. After a rapist is arrested, there are fewer rapes. After a drug dealer is arrested, however, neither the supply nor the demand for drugs is seriously changed. The arrest merely creates a job opening for an endless stream of drug entrepreneurs who will take huge risks for the sake of the enormous profits created by prohibition. Prohibition costs taxpayers tens of billions of dollars every year, yet 40 years and some 40 million arrests later, drugs are cheaper, more potent and far more widely used than at the beginning of this futile crusade.

We believe that by eliminating prohibition of all drugs for adults and establishing appropriate regulation and standards for distribution and use, law enforcement could focus more on crimes of violence, such as rape, aggravated assault, child abuse and murder, making our communities much safer. We believe that sending parents to prison for non-violent personal drug use destroys families. We believe that in a regulated and controlled environment, drugs will be safer for adult use and less accessible to our children. And we believe that by placing drug abuse in the hands of medical professionals instead of the criminal justice system, we will reduce rates of addiction and overdose deaths.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.

Nothing wrong with being against the behavior, but do you think lying about it's medical effects (not yourself, the government) and putting people in prison is good public policy?

Consider what focusing on the truth has done for tobacco use over the last couple decades versus what lying about marijuana has done in the last century.

We don't need to make it illegal and put people in jail to discourage it's use.

Counter-intuitively, those policies are amplifying the problems by increasing profitability for illegal dealers and turning huge masses of people into scofflaws based (quite justifiably) on the lies they have been told for over a generation. To say nothing of the costs of "enforcement."
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I bet he doesn't hate cops either, the poser.

:lol:

Well... liberty IS right in the name and is usually interpreted as the ability to live ones life as they see fit as long as their actions don't harm others.

And the drug war is the perfect opposite of that, so...

And I don't hate cops either. I want to see them held accountable, as I am, when they screw up, which they generally are not. But I consider it one of the most noble callings.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well... liberty IS right in the name and is usually interpreted as the ability to live ones life as they see fit as long as their actions don't harm others.

And the drug war is the perfect opposite of that, so...

And I don't hate cops either. I want to see them held accountable, as I am, when they screw up, which they generally are not. But I consider it one of the most noble callings.

You ok with lauding them when they do something right? I'm guessing not since you've never done it. Cops should be flawless in what they do? If only they'd hurry up that robot army of cops because, as long as they're human, there'll be screw ups.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?

I would not support legalization without taxing it. Drug use has a cost to society - at a minimum if we legalize drugs many individuals will require treatment and many of those will be unable to afford it. So I'd support a tax on drugs to fund those costs - matches the costs of drug use with those who benefit from legalization.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I would not support legalization without taxing it. Drug use has a cost to society - at a minimum if we legalize drugs many individuals will require treatment and many of those will be unable to afford it. So I'd support a tax on drugs to fund those costs - matches the costs of drug use with those who benefit from legalization.

Thank you for the response. Would not those who force society to incur a cost have to pay a fine rather than taxing it for everyone?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

No.

Not national legalization.

Removal of it from the narcotics list as it isn't one, and allow the individual states the right to regulate or ban.

Exactly. Until it is not banned by the feds, it is not legal.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?

Of course. The tax revenue is just a carrot to lure the opposition. The savings on enforcement alone easily make the change worthwhile. Imagine all the police and court resources that would be freed up to work on something useful.

Culturally, trading a policy based in misinformation for one based in reality can't be bad. It's easy to disrespect a government that persists in policies that are obviously not working.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?

I would since I feel the most important thing to do is to mitigate the harms caused by prohibition, and legalization alone would go along way towards that end; however taxation if done within reason and allocated towards education and treatment would also go a long way to dealing with our drug problem.

Primarily we need to end prohibition to divorce the manufactured criminal problem from the underlying drug problems, then we should focus all of the available resources and efforts to reducing the drug problem - taxation would go a long way towards furthering the latter goal, but I feel the former goal is the most paramount.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Thank you for the response. Would not those who force society to incur a cost have to pay a fine rather than taxing it for everyone?

Sure, addicts who need treatment should be charged for it, but the reality is they often won't be able to afford it. And even with legalization, police will be required to deal with drugs on a daily basis at some level in most places, same way they deal with alcohol daily. Social services will deal with addicted mothers or parents. Some drug users will be homeless like they are now. Etc.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

But being against drug USE is different than supporting sending drug users and sellers to jail, ruining their lives.

I've seen many more lives ruined by alcohol than pot but we can have an alcohol kingpin (McCain) run for POTUS. And I can't think of a single objective metric which we'd evaluate pot worse than alcohol, but we're encouraged by ads consume one, and one sends people to jail. It's just impossible for me to find a reason to treat one substance different than the other, and since prohibition of alcohol failed, and prohibition of pot has a decades long history of failure, it should be legalized.

The other big problem with pot is it's illegal, but use is rampant, including by some very high profile public figures, such as our Presidents. I think many of those who oppose legalization can do so knowing that if they or their HS or college age child gets caught, they'll hire a lawyer, and the problem will go away - Junior can still go to med school and be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. But they're OK sending the lower class "dealer" to jail and hanging a felony on that person for selling it to Junior because Junior won't ever be a "dealer." Seems hypocritical to me, and in an especially pernicious way.

I can sum up my response thusly: two wrongs don't make a right.

Can't say mamma never taught me anything....
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Fair enough, but how is the current policy accomplishing that goal?


i didnt say it did, or was

what i would like to see is even harsher penalties for sellers/distributors.......minimum 15/20 year sentences for first offences

users cant use if they cant find or procure the product

growers/sellers/distributors is where is would really make the penalties harsh

no leniency.....you want to do the crime, be prepared to do some major time
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Because there is NOT libertarian government rule in Colorado. The legalization of marijuana (a decidedly LibertariaN goal for decades) will not be accompanied by a libertarian approach to social services. Use has already been shown to have skyrocketed, with use increasing in kids as young as age 12. Use of other illegal drugs have also increased during that same time period. National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2013

There is a dirty little secret. SOME people can use marijuana just like they use alcohol. Function perfectly well during the week, hang out, smoke a few joints and get mellow once or twice during the week and maybe get lit on the weekend...life is good. Others...others are addicts. Psychological addiction comes with a cost. Homelessness, joblessness, increase in crime, increase in health care costs, to say nothing of the increase in those populations from homeless people in other states moving to a state with friendlier drug rules. Its far too early to tell what kind of long term impact it will actually have on schooling, graduation rates, college attendance, job prep, etc.

Will there be identified gains? Sure. Incarceration costs may immediately decrease. And as far as 'addictions' go, its an easily treated disorder. Essentially...there is no treatment for marijuana addiction. But...all addicts tend to suffer greater health problems. Someone is going to have to foot the bill. To that end, Colorado would be wise to bank that money.

Liberty is liberty, the consequence of 'we the people' enjoying freedom is the only relevant metric. I mean we could say that X activity causes a social and economic cost. But that turns into a slippery slope that can lead to zero liberty and freedoms.

Excessive taxes shouldnt be horded by the government, they should be returned to tax payers so IF the funds are needed later they can be paid by the growing tax payer base.
 
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