View Poll Results: Legal Weed: For or Against

Voters
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  • Conservative for

    81 25.88%
  • Conservative against

    8 2.56%
  • Liberal for

    93 29.71%
  • Liberal against

    8 2.56%
  • Independent for

    83 26.52%
  • Independent against

    5 1.60%
  • Conservative, Medicinal only

    30 9.58%
  • Liberal, Medicinal only

    4 1.28%
  • Independent, Medicinal only

    6 1.92%
  • Ire, Ire

    5 1.60%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

  1. #81
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

    We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

    I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
    But being against drug USE is different than supporting sending drug users and sellers to jail, ruining their lives.

    I've seen many more lives ruined by alcohol than pot but we can have an alcohol kingpin (McCain) run for POTUS. And I can't think of a single objective metric which we'd evaluate pot worse than alcohol, but we're encouraged by ads consume one, and one sends people to jail. It's just impossible for me to find a reason to treat one substance different than the other, and since prohibition of alcohol failed, and prohibition of pot has a decades long history of failure, it should be legalized.

    The other big problem with pot is it's illegal, but use is rampant, including by some very high profile public figures, such as our Presidents. I think many of those who oppose legalization can do so knowing that if they or their HS or college age child gets caught, they'll hire a lawyer, and the problem will go away - Junior can still go to med school and be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. But they're OK sending the lower class "dealer" to jail and hanging a felony on that person for selling it to Junior because Junior won't ever be a "dealer." Seems hypocritical to me, and in an especially pernicious way.

  2. #82
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Libertarianism is the most nave political philosophy out there.

    OK, libertarian, do you want to legalize heroin as well?
    yes...



  3. #83
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Awesome. At least you're consistent. And I'm glad you have no political power, because that would be quite a scary world to live in. A world in which countless people are addicted to heroin and all other sorts of drugs.

    You know that drug addicts are many times more likely to commit serious crimes than non drug addicts?

    That said, I don't even think cigarettes should be legal.
    But crimes committed by drug users and dealers are in part a consequence of criminalization. There is also a relatively small share of the population that is inclined to use "hard" drugs and the evidence appears to be that those who are inclined pay no attention to drug laws. And the fact that drugs are illegal, possession punishable by jail time, makes treatment more difficult and less likely. So whether the Drug War actually does any good, reduces addiction or the problems associated with drug use, is not a given. What is known is criminalization is an invitation for crime, turf battles, drug related violence, it greatly increases the prison population and all the costs associated with housing them, felony convictions, etc.

    Portugal's experiment with drug legalization has been a success. Drug use actually went DOWN, not up. Treatment went up, easily funded by drops in the incarceration rate.

    Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

    There are problems with assuming Portugal's approach would work in the U.S. but the bigger point is we assume criminalization somehow "works" to reduce the problems of drugs and there is simply a lot of evidence that our approach on balance at least MAY cause more problems than it actually solves.

  4. #84
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Yes, legalize it. Legalize ALL drugs. My signature sums it up for me: Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse.

    A quote from the link to LEAP in my signature:

    We believe that drug prohibition is the true cause of much of the social and personal damage that has historically been attributed to drug use. It is prohibition that makes these drugs so valuable while giving criminals a monopoly over their supply. Driven by the huge profits from this monopoly, criminal gangs bribe and kill each other, law enforcers, and children. Their trade is unregulated and they are, therefore, beyond our control.

    History has shown that drug prohibition reduces neither use nor abuse. After a rapist is arrested, there are fewer rapes. After a drug dealer is arrested, however, neither the supply nor the demand for drugs is seriously changed. The arrest merely creates a job opening for an endless stream of drug entrepreneurs who will take huge risks for the sake of the enormous profits created by prohibition. Prohibition costs taxpayers tens of billions of dollars every year, yet 40 years and some 40 million arrests later, drugs are cheaper, more potent and far more widely used than at the beginning of this futile crusade.

    We believe that by eliminating prohibition of all drugs for adults and establishing appropriate regulation and standards for distribution and use, law enforcement could focus more on crimes of violence, such as rape, aggravated assault, child abuse and murder, making our communities much safer. We believe that sending parents to prison for non-violent personal drug use destroys families. We believe that in a regulated and controlled environment, drugs will be safer for adult use and less accessible to our children. And we believe that by placing drug abuse in the hands of medical professionals instead of the criminal justice system, we will reduce rates of addiction and overdose deaths.
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
    Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse

  5. #85
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

    We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

    I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
    Nothing wrong with being against the behavior, but do you think lying about it's medical effects (not yourself, the government) and putting people in prison is good public policy?

    Consider what focusing on the truth has done for tobacco use over the last couple decades versus what lying about marijuana has done in the last century.

    We don't need to make it illegal and put people in jail to discourage it's use.

    Counter-intuitively, those policies are amplifying the problems by increasing profitability for illegal dealers and turning huge masses of people into scofflaws based (quite justifiably) on the lies they have been told for over a generation. To say nothing of the costs of "enforcement."

  6. #86
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I bet he doesn't hate cops either, the poser.

    Well... liberty IS right in the name and is usually interpreted as the ability to live ones life as they see fit as long as their actions don't harm others.

    And the drug war is the perfect opposite of that, so...

    And I don't hate cops either. I want to see them held accountable, as I am, when they screw up, which they generally are not. But I consider it one of the most noble callings.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #87
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Well... liberty IS right in the name and is usually interpreted as the ability to live ones life as they see fit as long as their actions don't harm others.

    And the drug war is the perfect opposite of that, so...

    And I don't hate cops either. I want to see them held accountable, as I am, when they screw up, which they generally are not. But I consider it one of the most noble callings.
    You ok with lauding them when they do something right? I'm guessing not since you've never done it. Cops should be flawless in what they do? If only they'd hurry up that robot army of cops because, as long as they're human, there'll be screw ups.

  8. #88
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?

  9. #89
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?
    I would not support legalization without taxing it. Drug use has a cost to society - at a minimum if we legalize drugs many individuals will require treatment and many of those will be unable to afford it. So I'd support a tax on drugs to fund those costs - matches the costs of drug use with those who benefit from legalization.

  10. #90
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I would not support legalization without taxing it. Drug use has a cost to society - at a minimum if we legalize drugs many individuals will require treatment and many of those will be unable to afford it. So I'd support a tax on drugs to fund those costs - matches the costs of drug use with those who benefit from legalization.
    Thank you for the response. Would not those who force society to incur a cost have to pay a fine rather than taxing it for everyone?

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