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National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

Legal Weed: For or Against


  • Total voters
    75
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

But crimes committed by drug users and dealers are in part a consequence of criminalization. There is also a relatively small share of the population that is inclined to use "hard" drugs and the evidence appears to be that those who are inclined pay no attention to drug laws. And the fact that drugs are illegal, possession punishable by jail time, makes treatment more difficult and less likely. So whether the Drug War actually does any good, reduces addiction or the problems associated with drug use, is not a given. What is known is criminalization is an invitation for crime, turf battles, drug related violence, it greatly increases the prison population and all the costs associated with housing them, felony convictions, etc.

Portugal's experiment with drug legalization has been a success. Drug use actually went DOWN, not up. Treatment went up, easily funded by drops in the incarceration rate.

Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

There are problems with assuming Portugal's approach would work in the U.S. but the bigger point is we assume criminalization somehow "works" to reduce the problems of drugs and there is simply a lot of evidence that our approach on balance at least MAY cause more problems than it actually solves.

So should we legalize everything and anything then?

I mean, where does your logic end? If criminalization invites crime, what should remain illegal, if anything?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

i didnt say it did, or was

what i would like to see is even harsher penalties for sellers/distributors.......minimum 15/20 year sentences for first offences

users cant use if they cant find or procure the product

growers/sellers/distributors is where is would really make the penalties harsh

no leniency.....you want to do the crime, be prepared to do some major time

I can only say I'm glad that is a increasingly fringe position.

So I'm clear, you feel that's the appropriate policy for marijuana?

We aren't talking about other drugs right now.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Nothing wrong with being against the behavior, but do you think lying about it's medical effects (not yourself, the government) and putting people in prison is good public policy?

Consider what focusing on the truth has done for tobacco use over the last couple decades versus what lying about marijuana has done in the last century.

We don't need to make it illegal and put people in jail to discourage it's use.

Counter-intuitively, those policies are amplifying the problems by increasing profitability for illegal dealers and turning huge masses of people into scofflaws based (quite justifiably) on the lies they have been told for over a generation. To say nothing of the costs of "enforcement."

Were we a nation of responsible adults, I might agree with your logic. We aren't, entirely.

Marijuana appeals to youths, and for that reason, regulation is appropriate.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I can sum up my response thusly: two wrongs don't make a right.

Can't say mamma never taught me anything....

Sorry but that response makes no sense. We should choose the option that does the least harm.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

i didnt say it did, or was

what i would like to see is even harsher penalties for sellers/distributors.......minimum 15/20 year sentences for first offences

users cant use if they cant find or procure the product

growers/sellers/distributors is where is would really make the penalties harsh

no leniency.....you want to do the crime, be prepared to do some major time

Are you a prison industry lobbyist?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Sorry but that response makes no sense. We should choose the option that does the least harm.

And marijuana harms people. Young people.

I'm not going to feel sorry for drug dealers and gangsters who feel they are "harmed" by being jailed for breaking the law. My sympathy is reserved for the kids they sell their poison to.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

People can get addicted to anything that stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain. Marijuana addiction is much the same as gambling addiction or porn addiction or video game addiction.



yes, I understand "phycological addiction" or in layman's terms "habits". that said, only one of these is illegal and it may have about as much "harm" as video game "addiction".


and... and... according to the links provided 91% of users according to THEM, will never have a "dependence" (note not "Addiction") issue.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

A very long time ago on the DICK CAVETT show, the host stated that he was for the decriminalization of marijuana but against its use.

I think that is a solid position although I would imagine that now decriminalization would be replaced with legalization and taxation but against its use.

That tends to summarize my own position.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Were we a nation of responsible adults, I might agree with your logic. We aren't, entirely.

Marijuana appeals to youths, and for that reason, regulation is appropriate.

Regulation comes in many forms. How does imprisoning people improve the situation?

If we want a nation of responsible adults, we need to start treating them like adults.

You can't strongarm adults into behaving the way you want. You have to convince them.

We managed it with tobacco without putting smokers in prison. We can do it with marijuana.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

So should we legalize everything and anything then?

I mean, where does your logic end? If criminalization invites crime, what should remain illegal, if anything?

If I thought we could obtain similar results to Portugal, decriminalize/legalize them all. Drug use by young people went DOWN. Treatment went WAY UP. That's what we want.

Basically, I have no feelings about the morality of drug use. Everyone in my family uses the drug alcohol (although I no longer do). That's fine with me, and fine with the vast majority of Americans. Alcohol users make a legitimate choice to get high. Why is any other drug different? So our drug policy should be based on the evidence of what works and what does not, and I can't look at the Drug War and find ANY area in which we can judge the Drug War to have succeeded, unless jailing more people, and more per capita, than any country on the planet is one of our goals.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

And marijuana harms people. Young people.

The point is that observation doesn't tell us whether the War on Drugs lessens the harm.

It harms some young people, but everyone I knew in college including me smoked pot at least once, several on a more or less regular basis, and not one were harmed by pot.

But I can make a long list of those I know who have DIED because of alcohol. So this is clearly true: "Alcohol harms people. Young people." And yet it's legal, because prohibition caused more problems than it solved.

I'm not going to feel sorry for drug dealers and gangsters who feel they are "harmed" by being jailed for breaking the law. My sympathy is reserved for the kids they sell their poison to.

But you're OK with drug dealers and gangsters who sell the drug alcohol? One of them was the GOP nominee for POTUS, and per CDC, alcohol kills 88,000 per year. Shouldn't we also jail the gangster McCain who sells poison to kids?

There were about 40,000 deaths from drug overdoses. Most of those (at least 55%) were manufactured by pharmaceutical companies. Shouldn't we shut down their drug labs and jail the kingpins making that poison?

Etc.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

You ok with lauding them when they do something right? I'm guessing not since you've never done it. Cops should be flawless in what they do? If only they'd hurry up that robot army of cops because, as long as they're human, there'll be screw ups.

I absolutely have taken their side a couple of times here.

And I never said I expect perfection. What I object to is departments refusing to sanction officers who actually misbehave.

We get punished when we **** up, even by mistake. So simple justice should require that those charged with catching us for punishment ALSO be punished when they fu k up.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

It will be a presidential campaign issue in 2016. Where do you stand on the issue?
Thank you for including the independent option.

I voted for legalization. It is time to end another failed prohibition.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I absolutely have taken their side a couple of times here.

And I never said I expect perfection. What I object to is departments refusing to sanction officers who actually misbehave.

We get punished when we **** up, even by mistake. So simple justice should require that those charged with catching us for punishment ALSO be punished when they fu k up.

Ok, I actually don't doubt you. There's a ton I disagree with you on but, in my experience, you've always been a pretty straight forward guy.

I think police departments, especially smaller ones can, indeed, circle the wagons and be non responsive when there are legit concerns. By the same token, lots of cops in the bigger departments don't feel their brass has their back and become overly responsive to complaints. Let's face it, a cop could do their job perfectly and folks will still complain and those that criticize them at every turn will always jump on the chance regardless of the facts. In fact I saw several times people argue the facts surrounding Brown's shooting were actually irrelevant. I think this contributes to that "code of silence" because most cops think, "well, I could be the next target of some witch hunt."
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Ok, I actually don't doubt you. There's a ton I disagree with you on but, in my experience, you've always been a pretty straight forward guy.

I think police departments, especially smaller ones can, indeed, circle the wagons and be non responsive when there are legit concerns. By the same token, lots of cops in the bigger departments don't feel their brass has their back and become overly responsive to complaints. Let's face it, a cop could do their job perfectly and folks will still complain and those that criticize them at every turn will always jump on the chance regardless of the facts. In fact I saw several times people argue the facts surrounding Brown's shooting were actually irrelevant. I think this contributes to that "code of silence" because most cops think, "well, I could be the next target of some witch hunt."

I actually talked about this phenomenon with a senior officer in LA.

She explained that a big part of it is about public perception. That if departments acknowledge wrongdoing it erodes public confidence and increases complaints/accusations. A PR thing, in other words.

IME, it creates permanent hostility/distrust in those who witness gross misbehavior and see NO repercussions for the officer(s) involved.

Its just bad for everybody.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Liberty is liberty, the consequence of 'we the people' enjoying freedom is the only relevant metric. I mean we could say that X activity causes a social and economic cost. But that turns into a slippery slope that can lead to zero liberty and freedoms.

Excessive taxes shouldnt be horded by the government, they should be returned to tax payers so IF the funds are needed later they can be paid by the growing tax payer base.
Ah...so we disagree then.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Awesome. At least you're consistent. And I'm glad you have no political power, because that would be quite a scary world to live in. A world in which countless people are addicted to heroin and all other sorts of drugs.

How's your consistency? Should alcohol be illegal again?
It's a common worry that legalization of drugs would lead to massive increase in abuse and addiction but addiction is a bigger problem now than it was before prohibition. In Portugal, they decriminalized drugs about 14 years ago and the addiction rate dropped.

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal - Forbes
"Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half:"

You know that drug addicts are many times more likely to commit serious crimes than non drug addicts?

That said, I don't even think cigarettes should be legal.

Drug addicts commit crimes because the drug they're addicted to is very expensive. I say, give addicts their drug, or sell it to them very cheap. The drug problem isn't that some losers are wasting their lives, the problem is they're stealing from you and me to do it. Prohibition hasn't worked at all- I doubt even one person is deterred from trying drugs because of the laws against it. Let's try a different solution.
And let's make very sure we're not trying to legislate morality.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I'm against and i'm still think that all legalized drugs(i'm sure that after weed we will legalize something else, more strong) are very dangerous for our society! Not only for health but for "brains" too.
pot usage will lead to moral degradation!
Regular pot smokers have shrunken brains, study says - LA Times
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

At least you're consistent. Glad you're a fringe and not the mainstream though.

glad to see you have not studied history
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Were we a nation of responsible adults, I might agree with your logic. We aren't, entirely.

Marijuana appeals to youths, and for that reason, regulation is appropriate.

Yes, regulation is appropriate. Ceding control to an unregulated black market insures that it can easily find its way into the hands of those youths you are so concerned about. If you want it regulated, that could and absolutely should occur with legalization - regulation does NOT occur as it stands right now.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
Your argument could've just as easily been against the legalization of PlayStation. It's telling that you focus on weed as the problem.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I can only say I'm glad that is a increasingly fringe position.

So I'm clear, you feel that's the appropriate policy for marijuana?

We aren't talking about other drugs right now.


yes....for growers, sellers, and distributors

i could care less if the penalties/fines etc for users are reduced

i want the people who market the drugs...who sell the drugs....who transport them across the country to know that if and when they are caught, it wont be a slap on the wrist

mine may not be the majority opinion, but i wouldnt call it a fringe opinion either
 
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