View Poll Results: Legal Weed: For or Against

Voters
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  • Conservative for

    81 25.88%
  • Conservative against

    8 2.56%
  • Liberal for

    93 29.71%
  • Liberal against

    8 2.56%
  • Independent for

    83 26.52%
  • Independent against

    5 1.60%
  • Conservative, Medicinal only

    30 9.58%
  • Liberal, Medicinal only

    4 1.28%
  • Independent, Medicinal only

    6 1.92%
  • Ire, Ire

    5 1.60%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

  1. #221
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So..the latter then. Good to know.

    We're done.

    FM
    I'm glad you finally seem to understand...but then didnt answer the question. How is that treatment by govt any different than for alcohol? And if not, why should pot remain illegal?

    Or was this just your way of avoiding the question? (Your final comments seem to indicate that)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #222
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why? Alcohol has affects on all those things, and probably (speculation but based on the differences in how MJ affects people) it will be alot less damaging.
    That may be true, but I'm not of the view that because we have one product that people can abuse, we might as well have 2, or 5, or 10 products they can abuse.

    Anyone that wants pot now gets it and functions in society.
    I'd say that in most sectors pot is an occasional treat. If it were legalized and easily accessible, use is likely to increase, and it remains to be seen how that will affect society long-term.

    THey legalized pot here in WA and I didnt start smoking it. It's been 2 years and there's been no increase in car accidents, workplace accidents (that I've heard of and they are studying the crap out of it's legalization and affects), etc.
    Yes, well, we can give it 10 years.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  3. #223
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

    We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

    I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
    Where are they getting their money??? I don't know anyone who 'sits around and smokes weed all day'.

    I think it should be legal. It's insane that so many taxpayer dollars are being wasted on enforcement, when things like tobacco and alcohol, which are far more harmful, are legal. (no, I am not for making either of those illegal)

    I also think it's insane that my doctor will give me all the percocet, oxycontin and codeine I want, but won't sign the papers for legal medical marijuana. People die from legal prescription drugs, I have not heard of one death solely cause by marijuana use.

  4. #224
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well let's just say I grew up in Colorado.

    We all know people who do nothing but sit around and smoke weed all day. High all day, no motivation to do anything except play playstation.

    I don't like seeing that, therefore I'm against legalizing marijuana.
    Do you have any thoughts on percentages? You know, the ratio of people who use weed responsibly vs those who don't? I don't know what that ratio would be, but I suspect there are far fewer who don't use responsibly. I'm supposing it's much the same way with alcohol.

    I have a couple of questions, though. Do you think the legality of weed in Colorado affects that ratio? Do you think people who don't use weed responsibly use less if it's illegal?

    And then there is the issue of whether it is justified to restrict ALL people who use weed...whether responsibly or not...because there is some number, which could be quite small who do not?

    This is just my opinion, of course, but I think those who would use it irresponsibly will do so whether it's legal or not.
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  5. #225
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Read the link first

    What are marijuana
    I read it - drugs are bad, pot included. It's not the argument we're having, which is should pot be legal or illegal.

    You seem to basing your argument on two things a comparison between alcohol and marijuana and secondly the ineffectiveness of incarceration. To the first point this is the fallacy of false choice. It's not a comparison of which is more damaging that is being debated.
    I understand pot should be evaluated on its own merits, but the comparison to the legal recreational drug and the now illegal one is legitimate. Besides, whether you like it or not, the public has already done the comparison and most of us can't figure out why we ban one but not the one that kills 88,000 a year, costs $200B in medical costs, etc. So the public doesn't respect laws against using pot - they don't see them as legitimate because of the massive double standard of a War on Some Drugs used by Some People.

    Second, on its merits, I can't think of any good reason to continue the War on Pot. What has it accomplished? It's available everywhere, cheap, potent, sold routinely to kids of any age, is part of the underground economy, rewards and enriches gangs and international drug cartels, fills our jails with non-violent offenders, and hasn't dented the availability, and NEVER WILL. Heck, it can be grown anywhere. What do we hope to gain from this War on Pot? More prison spending is doable - we can shatter our own record for most prisoners in raw numbers and per capita! - but other than that I can't see any realistic goal.

    The debate is whether we should give legal status to an additional intoxicant. The question isn't proposing replacing alcohol with marijuana, therefore your argument doesn't address the question. To the second point decriminalization will not decrease use, however the criminal aspect may deter some. There is plenty of room for reform in the criminal aspect, and I'd be open to considering ideas with regard to that. The most damaging outcome is for society and government to accept and even promote use.
    What is wrong with society accepting use? Shouldn't adults be free to get high from pot or alcohol? If not, why not?

  6. #226
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Because there is NOT libertarian government rule in Colorado. The legalization of marijuana (a decidedly LibertariaN goal for decades) will not be accompanied by a libertarian approach to social services. Use has already been shown to have skyrocketed, with use increasing in kids as young as age 12. Use of other illegal drugs have also increased during that same time period. National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2013

    There is a dirty little secret. SOME people can use marijuana just like they use alcohol. Function perfectly well during the week, hang out, smoke a few joints and get mellow once or twice during the week and maybe get lit on the weekend...life is good. Others...others are addicts. Psychological addiction comes with a cost. Homelessness, joblessness, increase in crime, increase in health care costs, to say nothing of the increase in those populations from homeless people in other states moving to a state with friendlier drug rules. Its far too early to tell what kind of long term impact it will actually have on schooling, graduation rates, college attendance, job prep, etc.

    Will there be identified gains? Sure. Incarceration costs may immediately decrease. And as far as 'addictions' go, its an easily treated disorder. Essentially...there is no treatment for marijuana addiction. But...all addicts tend to suffer greater health problems. Someone is going to have to foot the bill. To that end, Colorado would be wise to bank that money.
    Absolutely correct, I spent some time at a rehab for teens and young adults, visiting a family member, over the past year or so. Whoever thinks marijuana is harmless should spend some time working with kids who have been affected by addiction. Horrible outcomes.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  7. #227
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    That may be true, but I'm not of the view that because we have one product that people can abuse, we might as well have 2, or 5, or 10 products they can abuse.

    I'd say that in most sectors pot is an occasional treat. If it were legalized and easily accessible, use is likely to increase, and it remains to be seen how that will affect society long-term.

    Yes, well, we can give it 10 years.
    For me it's about the Constitution and people's rights. If alcohol isnt something the govt is prohibiting, then something thus far with many less health and societal implications should also not be prohibited.

    Keep in mind, pot use is widespread (not an occasional treat)...legal or not and in the states where legal....not much different has occurred, including any uptick in usage (except for out of state tourism.)

    People tend to be less violent, less abusive, and less inclined to have car accidents on pot than alcohol. There are also less health implications.

    This country has more important things to focus on. (And I dont use it)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #228
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    That may be true, but I'm not of the view that because we have one product that people can abuse, we might as well have 2, or 5, or 10 products they can abuse.
    If you're goal is to reduce use, then how can you prefer the status quo after ~80 years of costly failure, when in half that time we've reduce tobacco usage in the U.S. 50% without banning it?

    Why won't the tobacco model work with marijuana?


    I'd say that in most sectors pot is an occasional treat. If it were legalized and easily accessible, use is likely to increase, and it remains to be seen how that will affect society long-term.
    If\when we find out there is no significant damage to society, will you support decriminalization then?

    Do you have no faith in the existing studies of the effects of marijuana? Governments have been studying its impact since the 1890s, and not one scientific study has concluded it should be banned outright.

  9. #229
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    I think a distinction should be made.

    The Marijuana thats available today is not the marijuana that was sold 20 or 30 or even 40 years ago.

    Thanks to hydroponics Marijuana can be extremely potent and have highly debilitating effects on the user

    Its a dishonest comparison to say its akin to a few drinks and its outright misinformation to claim its " healthy " and or not harmful.

    Keep it illegal exept for cases where it may help with the side effects of certain Cancer treatments.

  10. #230
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I think a distinction should be made.

    The Marijuana thats available today is not the marijuana that was sold 20 or 30 or even 40 years ago.

    Thanks to hydroponics Marijuana can be extremely potent and have highly debilitating effects on the user

    Its a dishonest comparison to say its akin to a few drinks and its outright misinformation to claim its " healthy " and or not harmful.

    Keep it illegal exept for cases where it may help with the side effects of certain Cancer treatments.
    Highly debilitating.

    Please tell me how many people have died of an overdose of marijuana in the last 50 years.

    BTW, I grow tomatoes hydroponically, they aren't extremely potent, just delicious.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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