View Poll Results: Legal Weed: For or Against

Voters
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  • Conservative for

    81 25.88%
  • Conservative against

    8 2.56%
  • Liberal for

    93 29.71%
  • Liberal against

    8 2.56%
  • Independent for

    83 26.52%
  • Independent against

    5 1.60%
  • Conservative, Medicinal only

    30 9.58%
  • Liberal, Medicinal only

    4 1.28%
  • Independent, Medicinal only

    6 1.92%
  • Ire, Ire

    5 1.60%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

  1. #211
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, but alcohol withdrawal causes a risk of serious medical events like withdrawal seizures and death. No one has ever died from pot withdrawal to my knowledge. And there is also empirical evidence the typical "hard" drug addiction pathway looks like this - nicotine => alcohol => pot => other illegal drugs.



    Or, you could visit jails where we spend $billions housing drug users and dealers for years, and a lot of lives are ruined for non-violent crimes. The fact that addiction is a terrible thing isn't actually an argument for criminalization. And there is no one arguing FOR drug abuse or against treatment. The idea is treat drugs as a public health issue rather than a criminal justice issue. Alcohol use kills 88,000 per year, but no one notes that and longs for prohibition II.
    Read the link first

    What are marijuana

    You seem to basing your argument on two things a comparison between alcohol and marijuana and secondly the ineffectiveness of incarceration. To the first point this is the fallacy of false choice. It's not a comparison of which is more damaging that is being debated. The debate is whether we should give legal status to an additional intoxicant. The question isn't proposing replacing alcohol with marijuana, therefore your argument doesn't address the question. To the second point decriminalization will not decrease use, however the criminal aspect may deter some. There is plenty of room for reform in the criminal aspect, and I'd be open to considering ideas with regard to that. The most damaging outcome is for society and government to accept and even promote use.
    Last edited by johndylan1; 02-08-15 at 09:37 AM.
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  2. #212
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Read the link first

    What are marijuana

    You seem to basing your argument on two things a comparison between alcohol and marijuana and secondly the ineffectiveness of incarceration. To the first point this is the fallacy of false choice. It's not a comparison of which is more damaging that is being debated. The debate is whether we should give legal status to an additional intoxicant. The question isn't proposing replacing alcohol with marijuana, therefore your argument doesn't address the question. To the second point decriminalization will not decrease use, however the criminal aspect may deter some. There is plenty of room for reform in the criminal aspect, and I'd be open to considering ideas with regard to that. The most damaging outcome is for society and government to accept and even promote use.
    Not that the NIDA has much credibility in the first place, but did you read the page titled "Is marijuana a gateway drug?" at the NIDA source you were so kind to link to?

    let me help:
    Quote Originally Posted by Your source
    However, most people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, “harder” substances. Also, cross-sensitization is not unique to marijuana. Alcohol and nicotine also prime the brain for a heightened response to other drugs32 and are, like marijuana, also typically used before a person progresses to other, more harmful substances.

    It is important to note that other factors besides biological mechanisms, such as a person’s social environment, are also critical in a person’s risk for drug use. An alternative to the gateway-drug hypothesis is that people who are more vulnerable to drug-taking are simply more likely to start with readily available substances like marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol, and their subsequent social interactions with other drug users increases their chances of trying other drugs. Further research is needed to explore this question.
    The gateway hypothesis continues to be unsubstantiated, and even the NIDA with a history of bieng very loose with their "facts" for the sake of propaganda say as much.

    here is a link to a post where I take on one particular example of NIDA's dishonesty for the sake of propaganda: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1060102977

    Even if marijuana is dangerous, that does little more than strengthen my feelings that it should be legal. I do not want drugs legal despite their dangers, I want them legal because of their potential dangers. We can control distribution, make it less available to youth, and delay the average age of first use (which is a HUGE factor for whether or not someone will develop substance abuse/addiction in their lifetime).

    We are not doing anything about our drug problem in this so called war on drugs, we are dealing with a manufactured criminal problem. Without the criminality we can take steps to deal with our drug problem head on instead of wasting time, money, and resources for a criminal problem that exists as a direct result of prohibition.
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  3. #213
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Not that the NIDA has much credibility in the first place, but did you read the page titled "Is marijuana a gateway drug?" at the NIDA source you were so kind to link to?

    let me help:

    The gateway hypothesis continues to be unsubstantiated, and even the NIDA with a history of bieng very loose with their "facts" for the sake of propaganda say as much.

    here is a link to a post where I take on one particular example of NIDA's dishonesty for the sake of propaganda: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1060102977

    Even if marijuana is dangerous, that does little more than strengthen my feelings that it should be legal. I do not want drugs legal despite their dangers, I want them legal because of their potential dangers. We can control distribution, make it less available to youth, and delay the average age of first use (which is a HUGE factor for whether or not someone will develop substance abuse/addiction in their lifetime).

    We are not doing anything about our drug problem in this so called war on drugs, we are dealing with a manufactured criminal problem. Without the criminality we can take steps to deal with our drug problem head on instead of wasting time, money, and resources for a criminal problem that exists as a direct result of prohibition.
    Note in the article, that "social environment" is a major predictor of use. When legalizing, removing stigma and then further promote it's use for reasons of tax revenue, as is currently happening, the social environment becomes more conducive to use. Secondly it may be accurate to sat that a majority of pot smokers do not go on to harder drug use, but it is also accurate to say a vast majority of hard drug users smoked pot prior to their preferred substance. I believe upwards of 90%.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  4. #214
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    State and local governments are free to enact their own local laws concerning alcohol, though no States prohibit alcohol at this time. Some counties in some States DO prohibit alcohol...they are known as "dry counties".

    Alcohol laws of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    True, however I went to college in a dry county and altho they couldnt sell alcohol, people couid own and drink it. Are dry counties today totally prohibitive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #215
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats a pretty ****ing stupid comment. Even more stupid in context of the conversation that was being had. You might want to do yourself a favor and actually read and know what you are commenting on before you make more stupid comments.
    I did and just did so again and your entire attempt at analogy was pretty ****ing stupid. Most especially in the context of the converstation that was mostly you doing little drive by comments until you had to explain it...in a most inept manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #216
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    No national legislation. I'd rather wait and see what happens in the states where it has been legalized. I'm still concerned about the long-term effects it will have on productivity, self-sufficiency, social engagement, driving under the influence, etc.
    Why? Alcohol has affects on all those things, and probably (speculation but based on the differences in how MJ affects people) it will be alot less damaging.

    Anyone that wants pot now gets it and functions in society. That's not going to change radically.

    THey legalized pot here in WA and I didnt start smoking it. It's been 2 years and there's been no increase in car accidents, workplace accidents (that I've heard of and they are studying the crap out of it's legalization and affects), etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #217
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I did and just did so again and your entire attempt at analogy was pretty ****ing stupid. Most especially in the context of the converstation that was mostly you doing little drive by comments until you had to explain it...in a most inept manner.
    Nah...heres what happened. You found this cool "does that mean you support prohibition?" not even half a retard kind of stupid argument and are running around dropping it like its hot. Rev and I were having a discussion NOT on the legalization of marijuana...something we both agree with...but on whether or not it makes sense for the state to hold back some of the revenue from those sales taxes collected to pay for the pending social spending concerns.

    Your argument is stupid. Keep going and see if you cant keep doing a great job of proving its not just your argument.

  8. #218
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Nah...heres what happened. You found this cool "does that mean you support prohibition?" not even half a retard kind of stupid argument and are running around dropping it like its hot. Rev and I were having a discussion NOT on the legalization of marijuana...something we both agree with...but on whether or not it makes sense for the state to hold back some of the revenue from those sales taxes collected to pay for the pending social spending concerns.

    Your argument is stupid. Keep going and see if you cant keep doing a great job of proving its not just your argument.
    And it can be compared the same issues to those applied to governing and revenue for alcohol.

    It's not rocket science, just your knee-jerk defensive lack of comprehension.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #219
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    True, however I went to college in a dry county and altho they couldnt sell alcohol, people couid own and drink it. Are dry counties today totally prohibitive?
    I don't know. That link I gave you has the best info I've seen, but I didn't read all of it.
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  10. #220
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    Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And it can be compared the same issues to those applied to governing and revenue for alcohol.

    It's not rocket science, just your knee-jerk defensive lack of comprehension.
    So..the latter then. Good to know.

    We're done.

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