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Thread: Is this cartoon racist?

  1. #221
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Have you followed the thread? I have explained it at length.
    Yes I have followed it and none of what you say has any basis in reality.

  2. #222
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Yes I have followed it and none of what you say has any basis in reality.
    Good for you, neither do I give a damn about what you think.

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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I agree, you can contort pretty much anything into being racist. As evidenced by me using the same kind of logic Mildsteel used here to declare that a Hershey Chocolate Bar is racist because it's suggesting that Blacks (chocolate) are meant to be behind bars (the layout of the candy bar mimics the layout of jail cell bars).
    That was an absurd example and I said why.

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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Some time ago this cartoon appeared with a George Will column. Is this cartoon racist?
    It is accurate.

    "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Interesting quote. It looks like it is right out of the Melian Dialog.

  5. #225
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree because there is ample reference to feces being used in a derogatory context with reference to blacks because of their skin color.
    This is outside context being inserted into the cartoon.

    Where or what in the cartoon provides any reference or suggestion that the fece's it implies (through the "sniff sniff" comment) is a reference in any fashion to skin color?

    If you can't point to something within the comics content itself that clearly indicates or shows that the comic is tying the feces to skin color in some fashion, then your attempts to suggest that it's reference to feces is meant to reference skin color is inserting OUTSIDE CONTEXT, as opposed to using the context provided within the framework of the cartoon itself.

    As such, someone such as me who comes from an environment where such usage was common could realistically conclude, WITHOUT ADDITIONAL CONTEXT, that the cartoon was indeed racist.
    No, it's absolutely with additional context. Your statement above directly suggest that. You're using context from your environment to shade how your viewing the cartoon, despite nothing in the cartoon itself actually suggesting in any way that it's reference to feces is meant as a reference to black people.

    Your environment is not part of the cartoon. It is external to the cartoon. Assumptions and context you gleem from your environment and project onto the cartoon are inherently external context and thus additional to that which the cartoon is itself providing. Which is my entire point.

    This flows from the fact that observers give meaning to such a cartoon based on their past experiences.
    And those meanings, outside of the ones the cartoon is clearly indicating, are based on their own assumptions and context that they project upon it.

    Here is the context of the cartoon without any additional information besides what's in the OP, which means the cartoon and the fact it came from a conservative site:

    1. Obama is taking about his policies (as evidenced by the titles of the various items around the room)

    2. Obama believes he's had a good effect on those policies. This is clear as he has a positive expression on his face, compares it to the midas touch, and refers to chocolate which he calls "sweet" which is a positive descriptor.

    3. The observers in the room believe the policies are actually made of poo, not chocolate. This is clearly contextually evident by the fact that one observer is making the determination by smelling them, has a clearly disgusted look on his face while the other is seemingly tasting it and having a horrified look on his face that one would not expect if they tasted chocolate, but would be reasonable to expect if they tasted feces.

    4. Between the two observers actually testing the items and having a negative response (as opposed to Obama simply proclaiming it without smelling/tasting them), and the additional outside context provided by the OP that it was on a conservative commentators site, it's reasonable to conclude that the observers view of the items is meant to be the "correct" view.

  6. #226
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    That's the context of the cartoon itself, along with a bit of additional outside context provided by the OP. If you think there's somehow some other context from within the cartoon that indicates that the reference to chocolate and/or feces was meant to refer to race, and not to the policies and/or to the literal objects of chocolate/feces, then please...I'd be all ears.

    But pointing to historical uses of those words at times as a means of referencing black people is not pointing to context internal to the cartoon...it's pointing to context EXTERNAL from the cartoon and attempting to apply it to the cartoon, absent anything in the cartoon actually giving an indication that such an application is apt.

    My issue has not been, nor is, that someone may end up believing that the cartoon may be racist. Hell; even though I can't understand in any way shape or form how someone could come to a conclusion that it definitively IS racist, I still wouldn't say that's completely ridiculous. My statements have been that I can't see how someone can claim this absolutely is racist based if they are viewing it simply from the context provided within the cartoon itself, without imposing outside assumptions and context onto it that isn't indicated in some fashion within the cartoon.

    I had known, and have been acknowledging, that chocolate and feces have both been used to refer to black people before. But just like I wouldn't immediately say the word "Chocolate" in "Hershey's Chocolate Bar" was referring to black people even if it was in an ad for it that featured a black person, neither would I immediately say the word "chocolate" in this cartoon is referring to black people simply because it features a black person. The simple fact that it has been used that way doesn't inherently mean it is being used that way any time it's used in the vicinity of a black person. And when there is absolutely no internal context to the situation to suggest that it's being used to refer to black people, and there's clear contextual evidence to suggest it's referring to the literal candy of "chocolate", I have a hard time personally leaping to a definitive notion that "yep, talking about black people". But I acknowledge it's feasible that it could be what the cartoonist meant and he just choose to leave zero contextual clues within his cartoon to suggest that AND design the cartoon in such a way that interpreting it in that fashion actually makes the cartoon not make a lick of sense....I just think that's 1) highly unlikely and 2) is using external context to suggest that the word "chocolate" or the implication of "feces" in the cartoon is referencing black people.

    Again, unless you can explain to me...internal to what's actually IN the cartoon...how you believe the cartoon is indicating or suggesting that "chocolate" or the idea of "feces" is referencing Obama specifically, or his race in general, I don't really see my stance on that changing. Again, I'm not saying I can't possibly fathom how someone can't find this racist by adding outside context and assumptions onto it...I've acknowledged repeatedly in multiple posts I can see that happening. I'm saying simply using the context of the cartoon itself, THAT I can't see and it has not been explained.

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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There is an old joke that says if black is beautiful that my feces is a masterpiece.

    The cartoon can be viewed as racist because it subtly plays on the notions of Obama's skin color, chocolate and feces.
    Perhaps it plays on the notion that The Insane One cannot distinguish between success and failure. But then neither can his followers.

  8. #228
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Perhaps it plays on the notion that The Insane One cannot distinguish between success and failure. But then neither can his followers.
    Considering the track record of the guy before him, Obama is King Midas. No one turned gold to **** faster than Bush the Junior.

  9. #229
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That was an absurd example and I said why.
    Actually you didn't, and you also clearly didn't even understand it, considering your "explanation" went on a tangent about feces which had nothing to do what so ever with my statements regarding the chocolate bar.

    Nothing about the chocolate bar actually suggest that the grid pattern on the bar is referencing prison....but neither is anything in the cartoon itself suggesting in any fashion that the implication of feces is referencing skin color.

    Nothing about the chocolate bar actually suggests that its reference to chocolate is referencing black people....but neither is anything in the cartoon itself suggesting in any fashion that the reference of chocolate in it is referencing black people.

    Nothing about the chocolate bar being brown suggest that it's a reference to black people....but neither is anything in the cartoon itself suggesting in any fashion that the dark brown color of the policies is referencing black people.

    Yet somehow you have claimed that the cartoon IS racist, because it doesn't matter that nothing in the cartoon itself is suggesting those things, the fact that those things are present and the fact that those things have been used to in that fashion in the past means that it's acceptable to say that the cartoon is racist.

    Therefore, it doesn't matter that nothing in the Hershey's chocolate bar is suggesting those things. The fact that those things are present (it's pattern, the word chocolate, the color) and those things have been used to in that fashion in the past (you've highlighted the first two, and I doubt you'd argue the notion of racists using prison stats to attack blacks) means that it's acceptable to say that a Hershey Chocolate Bar is racist.

  10. #230
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    Re: Is this cartoon racist?

    On the surface a cartoon depicting the Obama's holding a picnic on the White House lawn eating chicken and watermelon would not be considered racist either. After all, what's wrong with a summer picnic with chicken and a few slices of watermelon?

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