View Poll Results: Does the domination of the presidency by certain families bother you?

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  • Yes

    69 49.64%
  • No

    70 50.36%
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Thread: American Royalty

  1. #21
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    In this context and compared to his predecessors and likely successor, I suppose you're right. The caveat, though, is by normal standards, Obama is hardly "self-made." He was handpicked by the democratic elite from the time he ran for senator.
    Well, it's what you do before you make Senator that makes you 'self-made'. Once you get to Senator, you already made yourself.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  2. #22
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    Re: American Royalty

    I think it's inaccurate to describe the Bushes and Clintons as a direct parallel. The Bush family really is dynastic. Samuel Prescott Bush was a political appointee. His son became a senator. His son became president. And his two sons both became governors of different states and one became president. And now a second will attempt to do so again. That's a dynasty. That's a family passing political power along the generations. That is a century of Bushes holding immense power in this nation. Time will tell if they will continue to pass this power on.

    Bill Clinton is the son of a salesman and a nurse and Hillary's parents were similarly a salesman and a housewife. They are members of the same profession and came up within the ranks of that profession together. At every turn, they were both involved in politics and neither has really ridden the other's coattails. In a world without the sex prejudice that ours has, every office held by Bill could just as easily been held by Hillary and vice versa, including the presidency. They are, indisputably, a team. They did not inherit any political power nor pass any on to their daughter. That's not a dynasty.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  3. #23
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The dems appear all but certain to place Hillary Clinton on the presidential ticket. It's looking more likely every day that the Republicans will follow suit and place Jeb Bush on theirs.

    If that does happen as expected, then for the past quarter century our presidential order has been: Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama - Bush OR Clinton.


    My question is.... does that bother you? It bothers me. Not as a Republican or Democrat, but just as an American. No matter who wins: Bush or Clinton.

    One of the defining things about America has always been the ideal that this is a meritocracy.... you attain high positions based on hard work, smarts, and determination. The whole "rags to riches" ideal, where any man or woman can rise from nothing to become something, I feel is under attack.

    If we choose, as a country, to go down the road of dynastic leadership, of familial rule, of royalty in all but title.... then don't we lose something that once made us who we are?

    Maybe it's only natural. After all, dynasties and royalty have been the norm in governments around the world for thousands of years. Maybe we are just gravitating back to our natural, base instincts as humans. But I hate to think that.

    Voice your opinion, please.

    It is worrying how difficult it seems to be for the voters to learn a new name.

  4. #24
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I think it's inaccurate to describe the Bushes and Clintons as a direct parallel. The Bush family really is dynastic. Samuel Prescott Bush was a political appointee. His son became a senator. His son became president. And his two sons both became governors of different states and one became president. And now a second will attempt to do so again. That's a dynasty. That's a family passing political power along the generations. That is a century of Bushes holding immense power in this nation. Time will tell if they will continue to pass this power on.

    Bill Clinton is the son of a salesman and a nurse and Hillary's parents were similarly a salesman and a housewife. They are members of the same profession and came up within the ranks of that profession together. At every turn, they were both involved in politics and neither has really ridden the other's coattails. In a world without the sex prejudice that ours has, every office held by Bill could just as easily been held by Hillary and vice versa, including the presidency. They are, indisputably, a team. They did not inherit any political power nor pass any on to their daughter. That's not a dynasty.
    I think you're splitting hairs a bit, but that's fine. I do agree that the Bush's fit the classical definition of a dynasty a bit closer than the Clinton's. That being acknowledged, then, that still leaves the question of whether it's good for America to have the power of the executive, in the past 25 years, limited in large part to two families?

    Is Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-Clinton any better, from the perspective of maintaining a meritocratic society, than Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-Bush?

    We're each entitled to our own opinion, mine being that neither scenario is particularly healthy nor good for the furtherance of an American society built on the shared core belief that merit, above entitlement, determines one's position in life.

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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is worrying how difficult it seems to be for the voters to learn a new name.
    Money talks.

  6. #26
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, it's what you do before you make Senator that makes you 'self-made'. Once you get to Senator, you already made yourself.
    Duly noted.

  7. #27
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Money talks.
    Lady Clinton?

  8. #28
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    Re: American Royalty

    What bothers me about the prospect of a Bush/Clinton match is that I can't believe in a country of over 300 million people we have to keep bringing in members of the same 2 families. When can we expect Chelsea Clinton to face George P. Bush?

    At least these 2 families are better than the Kennedys.

    It's time for some fresh new faces.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #29
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I think it's inaccurate to describe the Bushes and Clintons as a direct parallel. The Bush family really is dynastic. Samuel Prescott Bush was a political appointee. His son became a senator. His son became president. And his two sons both became governors of different states and one became president. And now a second will attempt to do so again. That's a dynasty. That's a family passing political power along the generations. That is a century of Bushes holding immense power in this nation. Time will tell if they will continue to pass this power on.

    Bill Clinton is the son of a salesman and a nurse and Hillary's parents were similarly a salesman and a housewife. They are members of the same profession and came up within the ranks of that profession together. At every turn, they were both involved in politics and neither has really ridden the other's coattails. In a world without the sex prejudice that ours has, every office held by Bill could just as easily been held by Hillary and vice versa, including the presidency. They are, indisputably, a team. They did not inherit any political power nor pass any on to their daughter. That's not a dynasty.
    The Rodhams are a political family. Hilary's dad was involved in Chicago politics. One of her brothers ran for a Florida Senate seat. Another brother is married to Barbara Boxer's daughter.

    The Rodhams may not be born in the purple, but they are every bit part of the nobility, thanks to Hugh's success in business and wealth. A minor house, if you will.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  10. #30
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    Re: American Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Hilary's father was also involved in Chicago politics; one brother ran for a Senate seat in Florida; the other brother married Barbara Boxer's daughter.

    "Rodham" is its own minor royal house in American politics.
    Which is one of the reasons she began calling herself "Hillary Rodham Clinton" after her husband left the WH. In addition to trying to obtain her own political power (without her husband) she ensured the connection to the Rodhams. Her father was a successful man, and what's interesting is he tried to convert his son in law to the Republican Party without much success obviously. But I think Hugh Rodham's influence over his daughter and her husband are part of the reason why I believe they are both pretty moderate Democrats - Bill certainly governed as a moderate, and I think she would do the same given the chance.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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