View Poll Results: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

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Thread: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

  1. #21
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    So in your opinion that's good reason to try to over throw a duly elected democracy?

    Come on.....who's into propaganda now?
    I'm saying it was the USA that overthrew a duly elected democracy in Ukraine.
    The USA has tried to pretend that the current gov't is the will of the people. It is
    the will of 18% of elegible voters. Ukraine was no paradise under Yanukovych, but
    it was much better than it is now. The Ukrainian citizens have been the most adversely
    impacted in every way. This is because the USA would have no compromise on dealing
    with Russia. Russia had been babysitting and subsidizing Ukraine for two decades.

  2. #22
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm saying it was the USA that overthrew a duly elected democracy in Ukraine.
    The USA has tried to pretend that the current gov't is the will of the people. It is
    the will of 18% of elegible voters. Ukraine was no paradise under Yanukovych, but
    it was much better than it is now. The Ukrainian citizens have been the most adversely
    impacted in every way. This is because the USA would have no compromise on dealing
    with Russia. Russia had been babysitting and subsidizing Ukraine for two decades.
    Oops did i post the wrong reply?

    I think we agree on all of that.

    Sorry
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  3. #23
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Ariel Cohen, an influential US foreign policy advisor noted the following back in 2001, long before the overthrow of Yanukovich and the Russian annexation of Crimea.









    Was the promotion of Ukrainian democracy by the US merely a pretext used to thwart the rise of the concept of Russian Eurasianism?
    That was really tough to read, with all of the black and red going on. Well, you make some interesting points. Would it be in US interests to do so? Technically it would. Do you think Obama has the peaches to pull something like that off? If so, he's risking the Democrats. If the Democrats supported him for this, they'd be total hypocrites.

  4. #24
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Whatever happened to properly quoting things? Why does Davefagan and MildSteel get a pass to seemingly post huge bits of information onto the forum with little to no well known sources and/or large swaths of text with no source, even though it is blatant copy-paste? Also most of this has already been discussed in another topic posted by the same person...Control yourself dave or mild or both?
    Last edited by NeverTrumpGOP; 02-02-15 at 05:04 PM.
    There's no greater irony than a Trump supporter pointing out hypocrisy; Unless it's Trump himself.

  5. #25
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ModerateGOP View Post
    Whatever happened to properly quoting things? Why does Davefagan and MildSteel get a pass to seemingly post huge bits of information onto the forum with little to no well known sources and/or large swaths of text with no source, even though it is blatant copy-paste? Also most of this has already been discussed in another topic posted by the same person...Control yourself dave or mild or both?
    There is plenty of room for you to copy and paste these alleged huge bits of info. Also room to point out the alleged copy-paste blatancy. You sound like someoney that doesn't like to discuss topics ignored/censored by ommission in the MSM, eh? You may be standing too close to the bells in Belleville, don't ya' know, or not.

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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Once again, I feel shame for what multiNational Corporations have
    turned the USA into.
    Here's another interesting Ariel Cohen quote from 2001

    Ukraine's next Premier must be acceptable to the investor community, including Western investors.

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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Ukraine is the critical element for Russia to return to being a mega-power far more than EU countries.
    I think that their present goals are to form another pole of power that has parity with the United States, as opposed to dominating the EU. Of course, if the opportunity presented itself, they would likely take it.

  8. #28
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's another interesting Ariel Cohen quote from 2001
    Since you are so fond of quoting Ariel Cohen, here are a few more for you. And these were penned *before* Putin's invasions of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

    July - 2011

    For many years, Russian diplomats have openly proclaimed that the former Soviet republics that make up the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) are not truly sovereign states. Russian analysts have stated that Russia regards the Obama Administration’s “reset” policy as a U.S. admission that the CIS is within Russia’s sphere of influence. It is clear that Washington needs a new approach to Eurasian foreign policy to prevent an emergence of a Russian sphere of influence or another regional hegemony. The United States should boost its diplomatic support of sovereign states, such as Ukraine and Georgia, and expand a real commitment to the region. Specifically, Washington should provide political support to East–West energy pipelines and uphold sovereignty and territorial integrity under international law—even if this upsets Russia.
    Reset Regret: U.S. Should Rethink Relations with Russian Leaders

    June - 2013
    Today, Moscow’s attempts to define the rules of the Eurasian geopolitical game are adversely affecting U.S. interests. The Kremlin is excluding American security and economic interests by using force, covert action, corruption, and non-customs trade barriers and by undermining the rule of law. Russia will attempt to construct its own ideology and define its sphere of influence in opposition to free market, liberal values and their champions—Europe and the U.S.
    Russia’s Eurasian Union Could Endanger The Neighborhood And US Interests


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

  9. #29
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Since you are so fond of quoting Ariel Cohen, here are a few more for you. And these were penned *before* Putin's invasions of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.


    Reset Regret: U.S. Should Rethink Relations with Russian Leaders


    Russia’s Eurasian Union Could Endanger The Neighborhood And US Interests
    Thanks. I had already read them tho.

  10. #30
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    Re: Did the US use democracy as a pretext to stifle the rise of Russia Eurasianism?

    Since the village idiot has mentioned Syria, here's some things of interest:

    From 2013

    Moreover, for the past two and a half years, Russia has been America’s major opponent around the world, from Syria to Iran to Europe.
    Here's a little more in depth from a 2007 piece

    Although re-establishment of ties between Russia and Syria began in 1998, Syrian President Bashar Assad's January 2005 visit to Moscow proved to be a turning point, as Russia made a decision to write off 73 percent ($10 billion) of Syria's total debt of $13.4 billion. A sale of the Strelets air defense missile sys*tem was concluded the same year despite protests from Israel and the United States. At the time of the sale, Putin denied Syria's request for more robust air defense missiles, such as S-300 and Igla, and for the short-range ballistic missile Iskander-E, which some analysts interpreted as a demonstration of sensitivity to Israeli security concerns.

    In the meantime, Syria was supplying Hezbollah with Russian weapons. In 2006, Israeli forces found evidence of Russian-made Kornet-E and Metis-M anti-tank systems in Hezbollah's possession in southern Lebanon. In February 2007, Russia responded to accusations of arming terrorist groups by announcing inspections of Syrian weapons storage facilities with the goal of preventing the weapons from reaching unintended customers.

    For several years, Russia has been attempting to engage in military cooperation with both Israel and Syria. However, the levels of cooperation with the two states are inversely related, and escalating arms sales to Syria can only damage the relationship with Israel.
    Russian-Syrian military cooperation went through numerous stages, from high levels of cooperation during the Soviet era to virtually no cooperation after the Cold War, until 2005 when Russia began to attempt to balance its relationships with Israel and Syria. However, Russia's recent return to the Middle East might indicate that Moscow is prepared to enter a new stage of military cooperation with Syria, even to the detriment of its relationship with Israel.
    Hmmm.

    What is likely happening here is that Russia is engaged in a delicate balancing act. On the one hand it needs to counter U.S. power in the Middle East which requires it to lend some support to Assad and Iran. Sensing this, Israel has reached out to Russia. Which results, on the other hand, that it needs to soften such support to satisfy Israel.

    Here's a couple of pieces of interest in this regard

    U.S. officials angry: Israel doesn’t back stance on Russia

    White House and State Department officials in Washington have built up a great deal of anger over Jerusalem's "neutrality" regarding Russia's invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. Senior figures in the Obama administration have expressed great disappointment with the lack of support from Israel for the American position on the Ukraine crisis and with the fact that the Israeli government puts its relations with the United States and with Russia on the same plane.

    One senior U.S. official noted that one of the reasons for the anger in the White House was Israel's absence from the UN General Assembly vote about two weeks ago on a resolution censuring the Russian invasion and expressing support for the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

    “We have been consulting closely on Ukraine not only with our partners and allies around the world," a senior U.S. official told Haaretz. "Obviously we are looking to the entire international community to condemn Russia’s actions and to support Ukraine, so we were surprised to see that Israel did not join the large majority of countries that voted to support Ukraine’s territorial integrity at the United Nations.”
    and


    Netanyahu calls Putin, takes neutral stance on Ukraine

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