View Poll Results: Do you think Obama realized what he said?

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Thread: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    No, not a justification for Russia's actions at all, but perhaps leading to understanding it more.
    I don't know if anyone ever failed to understand that Russia seeks to control its' near abroad in order to provide buffer against foreign threat. That's just part of Russian Paranoia.

    If the US instigated the change in government in the Ukraine, from the NATO neutral position to a pro-NATO position, then this lack of understanding of Russia kinda instigated this Russian response, perhaps?
    ....Even the Obama administration is not capable of being so blindingly incompetent as to miss that basic fact about Russia and yet so subtly competent as to actually achieve a coup against Ukraine. It's like the old accusations against the Bush Administration - that they were a bunch of idiots who had stumbled into Iraq because they were so-o-o stupid, but were also evil malevolent geniuses who were behind the 9/11 attacks and had orchestrated the WoT as part of some grand design.

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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I see and now you admit that the quote is exactly correct as regards Obama.
    Certainly. There was a power-transition brokered which Yanukovych signed. See post #15.

    Your shtick is to misconstrue/revise/manipulate events in order to fabricate some sort of Manichean conspiracy.


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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I don't know if anyone ever failed to understand that Russia seeks to control its' near abroad in order to provide buffer against foreign threat. That's just part of Russian Paranoia.



    ....Even the Obama administration is not capable of being so blindingly incompetent as to miss that basic fact about Russia and yet so subtly competent as to actually achieve a coup against Ukraine. It's like the old accusations against the Bush Administration - that they were a bunch of idiots who had stumbled into Iraq because they were so-o-o stupid, but were also evil malevolent geniuses who were behind the 9/11 attacks and had orchestrated the WoT as part of some grand design.
    I see what you are saying and inclined to agree, but there's been conspiracy theories kicking about that are claiming that the CIA had a hand in the Ukraine change in position, specifically, the scandal surrounding the NATO neutral previous prime minister. Don't know if there's anything to it or not. Seems to be a stretch.
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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    No, not a justification for Russia's actions at all, but perhaps leading to understanding it more.
    Russia's initial imperative was to ensure Ukraine's participation in Putin's proposed Eurasian Economic Union (EEU). The majority of Ukrainians however, wished to align with the European Union. NATO membership was nowhere on the horizon at this point. Yanukovych had promised to align with the EU and had strung everyone along (Ukrainians and the EU) on this since his election in 2010. Things came to a head when at the last moment Yanukovych refused to sign the European Union Association Agreement in Vilnius in September of 2013 and instead accepted a loan from Russia. When he reneged on his EU promise, the Maidan protests began.


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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    No, not a justification for Russia's actions at all, but perhaps leading to understanding it more.

    If the US instigated the change in government in the Ukraine, from the NATO neutral position to a pro-NATO position, then this lack of understanding of Russia kinda instigated this Russian response, perhaps?
    Good morning, Erik.

    Ironically, it was the Crimean people themselves that started things off in that area of the world by voting to return to living under the Russian umbrella. So we didn't agree with them? Big deal! They don't care what we think. . .it's their choice after all. I believe that we did start meddling in the Ukraine as a result - whether it was the CIA or someone else is not important at this point. We did meddle. The Ukranians did vote to oust an unpopular leader, who fled back to Russia to lick his wounds, so does that mean they don't want to live under Russian rule - or does it mean they just didn't want that particular man? I don't know. We aren't being told the whole story - what else is new - so if they vote to remain independent does that mean we should come to their aid? What does the rest of the world think about what's going on?

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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It might be true that the US stage a coup in Ukraine.But a link from a Russian news site without a video will get dismissed as pro-Russian propaganda making baseless allegations. Most posters are not going to answer a poll based on what someone claims someone else allegedly said.
    Or Fox news....


    There is NO DOUBT in my mind the president, who at that time was low in the polls and needing a boost especially in foreign affairs, dipped his wick in the affairs of a duly elected regime....."regime change" had been this guy's pie all along, Egypt, Libya etc....


    He is a rookie and it shows and he went up against the grand master politician and strong man with balls of iron, and Putin had him for breakfast. End of story.

    The fact he and the rest of the progressive morons deny it is part of life......these pricks still say you can keep your plan too.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia's initial imperative was to ensure Ukraine's participation in Putin's proposed Eurasian Economic Union (EEU). The majority of Ukrainians however, wished to align with the European Union. NATO membership was nowhere on the horizon at this point. Yanukovych had promised to align with the EU and had strung everyone along (Ukrainians and the EU) on this since his election in 2010. Things came to a head when at the last moment Yanukovych refused to sign the European Union Association Agreement in Vilnius in September of 2013 and instead accepted a loan from Russia. When he reneged on his EU promise, the Maidan protests began.
    Who says?

    You have polls to support that? Or is it more blather of "you can keep you plan..."?

    Or, was there a pro-west mob in Kiev, a minority in the nation who only had to be financed and emboldened by an outside power?

    You guys keep insisting the majority of the people wanted the US in, but there was never a vote, you know the democratic thingy. Instead, the US says all these people were living in oppression and wanted out so the US "liberated" them.

    Yeah, just like if Russia started a riot in Ottawa and began working to move Canada into their sphere.

    You're going to have to come up with more than just Obama's mythical ideas of how the world works and demonstrate that the US was backing democracy at all as opposed to defeating it because Obama needed a feather to go with the peace prize.

    Numbers talk, Obama bull**** walks
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia's initial imperative was to ensure Ukraine's participation in Putin's proposed Eurasian Economic Union (EEU). The majority of Ukrainians however, wished to align with the European Union. NATO membership was nowhere on the horizon at this point. Yanukovych had promised to align with the EU and had strung everyone along (Ukrainians and the EU) on this since his election in 2010. Things came to a head when at the last moment Yanukovych refused to sign the European Union Association Agreement in Vilnius in September of 2013 and instead accepted a loan from Russia. When he reneged on his EU promise, the Maidan protests began.


    Your feeble attempts at perception management are sorely lacking. Parubiy is the name
    of the Ukrainian made Defense Minister and who was in charge of the snipers at Maidan.
    "Yats," Yatsniuk was the name of the flunkee annoited by Nuland (US State Dept) before
    Maidan. Obama admitted brokering before the coup, and coup it was. The sham elections
    put Poroshenko in with 18% of eligible voters and about the same as the toadie Yats. Both
    Yats and Poroshenko are CIA assets. Yanukovych did not align with the EU and it was his
    right to represent the best interests of Ukrainians. He was correct. Ukrainians are screwed.
    Taxes are up. Energy costs are up. Pensions have been reduced. The people's patrimony
    will be used as collaterol for IMF loans. Ukraine will predictably default on the loans and the
    collaterol will be absorbed by IMF CORPORATE benefactors. The name of the game is "Screw
    a bunch of Ukrainians."

  9. #29
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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia's initial imperative was to ensure Ukraine's participation in Putin's proposed Eurasian Economic Union (EEU). The majority of Ukrainians however, wished to align with the European Union. NATO membership was nowhere on the horizon at this point. Yanukovych had promised to align with the EU and had strung everyone along (Ukrainians and the EU) on this since his election in 2010. Things came to a head when at the last moment Yanukovych refused to sign the European Union Association Agreement in Vilnius in September of 2013 and instead accepted a loan from Russia. When he reneged on his EU promise, the Maidan protests began.
    Very interesting. Nothing to do with NATO at all, economics agreement reneg. Thanks for the info. If nothing else, I'm glad that it wasn't US ham fisted-ness that caused this.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, Erik.

    Ironically, it was the Crimean people themselves that started things off in that area of the world by voting to return to living under the Russian umbrella. So we didn't agree with them? Big deal! They don't care what we think. . .it's their choice after all. I believe that we did start meddling in the Ukraine as a result - whether it was the CIA or someone else is not important at this point. We did meddle. The Ukranians did vote to oust an unpopular leader, who fled back to Russia to lick his wounds, so does that mean they don't want to live under Russian rule - or does it mean they just didn't want that particular man? I don't know. We aren't being told the whole story - what else is new - so if they vote to remain independent does that mean we should come to their aid? What does the rest of the world think about what's going on?
    Yeah, it's their choice, and sounds like 1/2 the country was going one way, and the other going the other way. The resulting mess must be how Ukrainians settle their differences or something.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Obama Admits US Role in 2014 Ukraine Coup

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Very interesting. Nothing to do with NATO at all, economics agreement reneg. Thanks for the info. If nothing else, I'm glad that it wasn't US ham fisted-ness that caused this.
    The only reason Yanukovych won the 2010 presidential election is because Ukrainians felt the alternative, Yulia Tymoshenko, was worse. Yanukovych was himself a petty criminal who served time in prison. He made a number of huge blunders while in office. His first blunder in March of 2010 was appointing Party of Regions hardliners to all power/cabinet positions in government. No reconciliation appointments for the opposition. He also sacked all regional governors and replaced them with his PoR loyalists. His next major blunder came in April of 2010 when he signed a very long lease agreement with Russia concerning the Black Sea Fleet base at Sevastopol in return for ephemeral gas price concessions. This crappy deal essentially gave Russia de-facto control over Crimea. His next major blunder came a bit later when he had his PoR loyalists in parliament change the constitution to give the president enormous powers. A "super-president" if you will. All during this time Yanukovych, his son, and a dozen of his closest cronies formed what Ukrainians called "The Family". They embezzled billions.

    The final straw for Ukrainians was the EU Association Agreement. For about a year and a half Yanukovych and his ministers were stating that this was a done deal, that they were committed to European integration. He even went to the signing ceremony in Vilnius, Lithuania. But when the moment came to sign the document, he refused and flew back to Ukraine. This was shattering to Ukrainians who saw in EU membership a means to become as economically prosperous as their neighbors in Poland, and an avenue to transition Ukraine to the European rule of law and end the endemic corruption that constantly plagued their nation. This was the proverbial breaking point... Ukrainians had had enough of Yanukovych and his thieving/deceitful cabal. Massive protests soon began in Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kyiv. They vowed not to leave until Yanukovych was gone.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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