View Poll Results: Would You Consider A Vote For Jill Stein?

Voters
308. You may not vote on this poll
  • Absolutely!

    107 34.74%
  • Only If My Preferred GOP Candidate Loses The Nomination

    42 13.64%
  • Only If My Preferred Dem Candidate Loses The Nomination

    49 15.91%
  • Strong Maybe, Leaning Yes.

    40 12.99%
  • Meh. It Could Happen.

    18 5.84%
  • I Like Her And Support Her Run, But No....

    32 10.39%
  • No Way!

    20 6.49%
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Thread: Jill Stein

  1. #31
    Student Cavendish's Avatar
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    That's your opinion, I guess. You're not a libertarian, so you don't have much place telling those that are what candidates do and do not appeal to them.
    I know the currents in American libertarianism very well. "Left-libertarianism" has little currency across the country; it certainly has no influence within the Libertarian Party, and is generally called libertarian socialism, in the spirit of Chomsky, de Cleyre (and the radical feminists in general) and Proudhon (more broadly, anarcho-communism).

    "Left-libertarianism" is not, unlike libertarianism (classical liberalism), rooted in the original political ideas and thoughts of the Founders of the U.S. It's more closely related to social liberalism, (traditional European) anarchism, and socialism of various stripes than classical liberalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Jill Stein brings civil issues, foreign policy, and social issues to the table for libertarians. And for more left-leaning libertarians like myself, many parts of her economic platform can be appealing as well. She wouldn't be my first choice, for the reasons I just mentioned, but she'd be a strong consideration.
    You can't divorce economic and social issues if your goal is liberty. Greens oppose strong economic rights for the individual, they favor grand government initiatives to combat global warming and whatnot, and they advocate practical economic revolution and a reconfiguration of our economy from a base on oil and gas to renewable sources. How many self-described libertarians agree in the U.S? Not many. The Green party's vote doesn't come from the libertarian bloc, but rather siphons off from the left-wing faction of the Democratic Party and the "alternative left" bloc of the voter-base.
    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

  2. #32
    Sage

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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post

    And per your late to the party response, see above where I listed like 5 or 6 issues that the GP candidate(s) will campaign on, which I doubt a single Democrat will campaign on.

  3. #33
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    3) anyone who believes that the way to stop those who violate laws against rape and robbery is to disarm people who don't commit real crimes is too dishonest for me to ever support
    I think those idiots should just come and say something like "we support disarming victims, so rapists and robbers stop raping and robbing people."

  4. #34
    Sage

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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavendish View Post
    strong economic rights for the individual, they favor grand government initiatives to combat global warming

    explain how you think this challenge is solved via individual rights?

  5. #35
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    Re: Jill Stein

    I admit, I ALMOST considered voting for Jill Stein in 2012...but then I was like nah what's the point.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #36
    Student Cavendish's Avatar
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    explain how you think this challenge is solved via individual rights?
    The 'challenge' of combating global warming? I see global warming as something of a ruse. But my critique of Stein's position is alas simple. Market failures might exist but they're irrelevant because of much larger and more significant government failures. When the government intervenes, in most cases, it often leads to far greater inequities and inefficiencies than the original market failure. When it comes to the environment, this is no different. Private enterprises will ALWAYS figure out ways to constantly redesign and innovatively revolutionise resource management. They have a direct incentive to not waste resources and instead transition to cleaner sources of energy. Protection of their reputation of course ensures this. If anyone honestly thinks that corporations would start pillaging the environment like savages without any government regulation they obviously have no knowledge of history or economics.

    Governments worldwide, especially socialist governments, are extreme abusers of the environment, because of their lack of accountability and inability to efficiently allocate resources.
    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

  7. #37
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    She was the Green Party nominee in 2012 and potentially will be again in 2016.
    Well, at least she's got the name recognition thing going for her.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  8. #38
    Sage

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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavendish View Post
    Protection of their reputation of course ensures this. If anyone honestly thinks that corporations would start pillaging the environment like savages without any government regulation they obviously have no knowledge of history or economics.

    .

    LOL. Wow.

  9. #39
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    LOL. Wow.
    You do realize that most of the pollution that liberals complain about is to the most part the fault of the government, right? That's why liberals are so cute. They complain about power plants polluting the environment and guess who is responsible for the current system? The answer might be embarrassing for liberals.

  10. #40
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    Re: Jill Stein

    Her and the Green Party's platform is every bit as far fetched, desirable and frankly dangerous as libertarians and the CPUSA. Her chances, thankfully, are less than non-existent.

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