• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202013.

Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis.

  • Yes!

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • NO!

    Votes: 15 88.2%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2.../vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/Transcript:Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the wordHonourable ColleaguesHonourable Vladimir VasiljevitchIn my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people……activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me……providing clear evidence……that within our territory……with support and direct participation…of the US Embassy in Kiev……the "TechCamp" project is realised……under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare……and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media……potential revolutionaries……for organising protests…… and the toppling of the State Order.The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility……of the US ambassador to Ukraine……Geoffrey R. Pyatt. (Partial transcript, read the rest)

Did the USA initiate the Ukraine crisis?
Did the USA plan a Civil War?
Have we improved the lot of Ukrainians thus far?
Do the citizens of the USA know what Ukraine is about?
Poll Question: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis?
 
Last edited:
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2.../vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/Transcript:Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the wordHonourable ColleaguesHonourable Vladimir VasiljevitchIn my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people……activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me……providing clear evidence……that within our territory……with support and direct participation…of the US Embassy in Kiev……the "TechCamp" project is realised……under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare……and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media……potential revolutionaries……for organising protests…… and the toppling of the State Order.The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility……of the US ambassador to Ukraine……Geoffrey R. Pyatt. (Partial transcript, read the rest)Did the USA initiate the Ukraine crisis?Did the USA plan a Civil War?Have we improved the lot of Ukrainians thus far?Do the citizens of the USA know what Ukraine is about?Poll Question: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis?

What's up with that link Dave?
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2.../vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/Transcript:Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the wordHonourable ColleaguesHonourable Vladimir VasiljevitchIn my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people……activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me……providing clear evidence……that within our territory……with support and direct participation…of the US Embassy in Kiev……the "TechCamp" project is realised……under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare……and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media……potential revolutionaries……for organising protests…… and the toppling of the State Order.The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility……of the US ambassador to Ukraine……Geoffrey R. Pyatt. (Partial transcript, read the rest)Did the USA initiate the Ukraine crisis?Did the USA plan a Civil War?Have we improved the lot of Ukrainians thus far?Do the citizens of the USA know what Ukraine is about?Poll Question: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis?

This is some really intense divination. A prediction nearly 20,000 years in the future? Damn.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

This is some really intense divination. A prediction nearly 20,000 years in the future? Damn.

:lamo
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

What's up with that link Dave?

Thanks, I fixed the link.

This was a speech delivered to the Ukraine Parliament on 11/20/2013, before Maidan.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

The Vineyard of the Saker

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2.../vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/Transcript:Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the wordHonourable ColleaguesHonourable Vladimir VasiljevitchIn my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people……activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me……providing clear evidence……that within our territory……with support and direct participation…of the US Embassy in Kiev……the "TechCamp" project is realised……under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare……and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media……potential revolutionaries……for organising protests…… and the toppling of the State Order.The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility……of the US ambassador to Ukraine……Geoffrey R. Pyatt. (Partial transcript, read the rest)

Did the USA initiate the Ukraine crisis?
Did the USA plan a Civil War?
Have we improved the lot of Ukrainians thus far?
Do the citizens of the USA know what Ukraine is about?
Poll Question: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis?

OMG!!! WOW!!!!

You sure that is bona fide? If it is, that is dynamite!

WOW!!!
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

The link is to a blog, and I can't seem to find the info being copied in the OP.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

The Vineyard of the Saker

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2.../vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/Transcript:Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the wordHonourable ColleaguesHonourable Vladimir VasiljevitchIn my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people……activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me……providing clear evidence……that within our territory……with support and direct participation…of the US Embassy in Kiev……the "TechCamp" project is realised……under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare……and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media……potential revolutionaries……for organising protests…… and the toppling of the State Order.The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility……of the US ambassador to Ukraine……Geoffrey R. Pyatt. (Partial transcript, read the rest)

Did the USA initiate the Ukraine crisis?
Did the USA plan a Civil War?
Have we improved the lot of Ukrainians thus far?
Do the citizens of the USA know what Ukraine is about?
Poll Question: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis?

Even if Obama did ignite this civil war, plan it, and help execute it...to the sheep it's just a "fake scandal".

With that said though, I haven't seen any convincing evidence that Obama was behind this. Just Putin's tears.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Even if Obama did ignite this civil war, plan it, and help execute it...to the sheep it's just a "fake scandal".

With that said though, I haven't seen any convincing evidence that Obama was behind this. Just Putin's tears.

What sort of evidence would be convincing to you? Don't expect him to come out and admit it. I don't think they directly planned a civil war. I think it is indeed possible that they thought out the possibility that US actions in Ukraine could lead to a civil war and therefore made preparations for it. They would be rather incompetent if they left behind a smoking gun, and that in itself would be very disturbing.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

OMG!!! WOW!!!!

You sure that is bona fide? If it is, that is dynamite!

WOW!!!

It sure looked legitimate to me. It was about 3-4 months before Maidan and revealed
the whole plot by the USA operating out of the Embassy. Nobody will pay any attention
to it and the MSM perception management people will make sure it doesn't get air time
in the USA.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

It sure looked legitimate to me. It was about 3-4 months before Maidan and revealed
the whole plot by the USA operating out of the Embassy. Nobocy will pay any attention
to it and the MSM perception management people will make sure it doesn't get air time
in the USA.

Actually, I can across this story that is supposedly dated to around that time. So it looks legit.

Tsariov accuses US Embassy of preparations for inciting civil war in Ukraine| Ukrinform
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Actually, I can across this story that is supposedly dated to around that time. So it looks legit.

Tsariov accuses US Embassy of preparations for inciting civil war in Ukraine| Ukrinform

Yes, the same story and dated 11-20-2013, and that is before Maidan. Of course, we already knew
the US was behind this and the perception management team will make certain it does not ever get
in USA MSM. The Do-Gooders are doing bad and sheep don't want to believe it. Their programming
is working terrific. Ain't it a shame.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Yes, the same story and dated 11-20-2013, and that is before Maidan. Of course, we already knew
the US was behind this and the perception management team will make certain it does not ever get
in USA MSM. The Do-Gooders are doing bad and sheep don't want to believe it. Their programming
is working terrific. Ain't it a shame.

I understand what the US is trying to accomplish. They really don't want that Eurasian Union thing to get off the ground because it would put Russia in a position to seriously challenge US hegemony, especially as the power of the dollar starts to wane. What troubles me is I really don't think our people have thought this out properly. They have pushed Russia into a corner, but Russia has a formidable nuclear arsenal. Because of that, if they want to, they can draw lines that cannot be crossed. I really don't think that what was at stake in Ukraine was worth bringing all that to a head. It's a very dangerous game. I don't like it at all.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

File this right next to Bengahzi, FnF and the IRS scandal.
Also let's not forget the destabilizing of the whole ME.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

It sure looked legitimate to me.
Any blog material wrapped in tinfoil looks legitimate to you Dave.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Simpleχity;1064252065 said:
Any blog material wrapped in tinfoil looks legitimate to you Dave.

Apparently that story has appeared in more than a blog.

Again, I really don't think the US actually wanted a civil war in Ukraine. However, it could be that we knew that our activities there might provoke one, and therefore the need arose to plan for it, in case it did indeed come to pass. That is something I think is possible.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Wanting independence from Russia, and wanting to independently decide one's future, is neither done alone nor can it be done by incite only. The bottom line is Ukraine wants this, and whatever help they may have gotten is secondary.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Simpleχity;1064252065 said:
Any blog material wrapped in tinfoil looks legitimate to you Dave.

The perception management team has a wonderful grip on your limited intellectual acuity, so you needn't
worry for a moment that the real world may intrude upon your dream world. The speech quoted was by a
Ukrainian representative and quoted in more than one blog. I know you don't want to believe or are hired
not to believe it, but that's the fact Jack. I know the junta in Kiev has really helped those Ukrainians by
raising their energy costs, and raising their taxes, and lowering their pensions and using their children as
cannon fodder, but it's all good, don't ya' know, cause how else you gonna steal the patrimony of the people
unless you bankrupt them first. Not only that, but another marketing opportunity for the largest arms dealer
in the World. "War is good business, and the war business is good in the USA."
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

What sort of evidence would be convincing to you? Don't expect him to come out and admit it. I don't think they directly planned a civil war. I think it is indeed possible that they thought out the possibility that US actions in Ukraine could lead to a civil war and therefore made preparations for it. They would be rather incompetent if they left behind a smoking gun, and that in itself would be very disturbing.

There are plenty of ways to see evidence. I have seen none right now. None at all the suggest any US involvement. Everything people say about US involvement is merely their conspiracy theory.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Wanting independence from Russia, and wanting to independently decide one's future, is neither done alone nor can it be done by incite only. The bottom line is Ukraine wants this, and whatever help they may have gotten is secondary.

The problem is that there are quite a few people in Ukraine that prefer to be aligned with Russia. Not only that but Yanukovich was democratically elected, as were his predecessors. If we are going to support democracy, we (the US) need to let that process play out, unless there is some direct very compelling interests that dictate otherwise. Ukraine, for better or worse, is situated right next to Russia, and it has historic ties with Russia. Along with their desire to be independent and make their own decisions, they will at the very least have to take into consideration Russia's interests. There is no way around it.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

There are plenty of ways to see evidence. I have seen none right now. None at all the suggest any US involvement. Everything people say about US involvement is merely their conspiracy theory.

Well you are wrong. There is plenty of evidence of US involvement. And quite frankly, I don't think it is a fault for the US to be involved. I just don't like the way we went about it.

Just to be clear tho, I don't think the purpose was to start a civil war. I want to believe our people are not that stupid.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

The problem is that there are quite a few people in Ukraine that prefer to be aligned with Russia. Not only that but Yanukovich was democratically elected, as were his predecessors. If we are going to support democracy, we (the US) need to let that process play out, unless there is some direct very compelling interests that dictate otherwise. Ukraine, for better or worse, is situated right next to Russia, and it has historic ties with Russia. Along with their desire to be independent and make their own decisions, they will at the very least have to take into consideration Russia's interests. There is no way around it.

If Ukraine is independent, why should it worry about another bully country's interests? It instead should mind its own business. Especially this may be so since the bully bear Russia is attempting to annex various Ukrainian territories illegally.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Well you are wrong. There is plenty of evidence of US involvement. And quite frankly, I don't think it is a fault for the US to be involved. I just don't like the way we went about it.

Just to be clear tho, I don't think the purpose was to start a civil war. I want to believe our people are not that stupid.

Can you provide us with this "pleny of evidence" so we may examine it and verify your claims? Credible sources will help me better understand your alligations.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

If Ukraine is independent, why should it worry about another bully country's interests? It instead should mind its own business. Especially this may be so since the bully bear Russia is attempting to annex various Ukrainian territories illegally.

The US bullies people around. So yeah, other countries have to take that into consideration. But even when it is not unnecessary bullying, but a legitimate exercise in protecting self interest, that has to be taken into account. It's just like in the ME, the US has to take the Israelis interest interests into account. Foreign policy is not formed in a vacuum. Sometimes the interests coincide, sometimes they don't.
 
Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

Can you provide us with this "pleny of evidence" so we may examine it and verify your claims? Credible sources will help me better understand your alligations.

Have you not seen the pictures of the Assistant Secretary of State protesting in the streets? Have you not seen the videos of her clearly stating to major business interests that the US has invested heavily in Ukraine?
 
Back
Top Bottom